Season 2 · Episode 7

Ned Sanders - PhotoCred Ned

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0:00Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to Alien Eyes Photos
0:06Industry Talk with your host, photographer Jackson.
0:12And man, I'm excited.
0:13I have a legendary photographer with me.
0:16I don't just say that.
0:17It's about like five great video and camera operators
0:23that I personally know, and I call them legends.
0:26He's one of them.
0:28Thank you.
0:28I have next to me, photo cred man.
0:32Oh, man.
0:34Thank you.
0:34Thank you, Steve.
0:35Thank you, man.
0:36Thank you so much, man.
0:38Not legendary yet.
0:40Not legendary?
0:41No, man.
0:42I'm so much of a student.
0:45There's so much to learn to where it's like I haven't
0:49achieved.
0:50It's not even our colleagues.
0:52It's like achieved a certain skill set just yet
0:55to where I'm like, yeah, now I'm in like that space of like
1:01where I ain't going to say you can't do no wrong,
1:03but you in that like creative art form realm
1:08where you're not by yourself,
1:10but you kind of like in your own type of lane,
1:12like where you just please with everything that you do,
1:15that everything kind of makes sense to you.
1:18So once I get in that realm, yeah, I'm legendary.
1:22Or once you see people come from up under me
1:24that I kind of taught and showed them some stuff,
1:27then I think that's the legendary status stuff.
1:31So I got a ways to go.
1:31But I'm still a novice in this.
1:33I'm still young in this photography.
1:34How long you been doing photography?
1:37I started in 2018 when my brother, my younger brother
1:41got married in Dominican Republic.
1:43But my older brother picked up photography as a hobby.
1:48And if I could say it, my older brother
1:50is better than me at photography even to this day.
1:52He don't even do it as much.
1:54But he learned from a creative and a technical end.
1:57So he learned from an actual photographer
2:00that was doing competitions and stuff like that.
2:03So like how to hold your head a certain way
2:05where you can't see the ear on head shots.
2:07Like they was very technical on certain things.
2:10Like he dialing in on every color part of it.
2:14Like the dude, his name is like Jeremy something,
2:16but he is man, like he is so good.
2:20But my brother is a technician,
2:24like a creative and technician.
2:25He do music, colognes, everything.
2:28Like whatever he touch, he's just phenomenal at it.
2:30So he showed me photography.
2:33And when I did photography, when I learned it,
2:36when I went out to Dominican Republic,
2:37I was like, man, this is amazing.
2:39But the way he showed me, he was like,
2:41look man, I could sell you one of my cameras
2:45or I could sell you one of my cameras
2:46and give it to you and you just put it on auto
2:49and just be shooting.
2:51Or I could show you the principles of photography.
2:54So I was like, man, show me the principles of photography.
2:57For three days we didn't shoot at all.
2:59He just taught me exposure triangle,
3:01this, that, that, just running it down.
3:03The third day he sat me on his porch
3:05and showed me motion.
3:07He was like, look, we're gonna use the camera,
3:09but I'm gonna show you how to get the motion
3:10of the tires.
3:12So I'm gonna do it like a longer exposure,
3:14longer exposures to get the motion
3:16and we're gonna stop time.
3:17Once I understood that concept, it was a rap.
3:21But it wasn't a rap as far as me not just,
3:25me just going out there to shoot.
3:26It was a rap to where it's like,
3:27I knew this was something I love to do.
3:29So it was dope, it was dope.
3:32That's what kind of started everything for real, for real.
3:35Let's talk about how you got the name
3:36of PhotoCred Ned.
3:37I think that's a great name by the way,
3:39because you know, who took the picture?
3:43PhotoCred's go to Ned.
3:45There you go.
3:46That's basically where it kind of started.
3:48Cause I used to, like when I started photography,
3:51I was like, I was thinking of like,
3:53man, what's a cool little name for you, for yourself.
3:55But my name is Ned, Ned Sanders.
3:58Like Ned, everybody goes, Ned?
4:00What is it?
4:01It's just Ned.
4:02But I used to see people,
4:05like when I see my boy stretch shoot in the club
4:07or I see people or used to put on their photography page
4:11on the ground was the PhotoCred by stretch.
4:15PhotoCred by Stefan Mitchell and Natasha Herbert
4:18or something like that.
4:20And so I was like, damn PhotoCred.
4:22Then I was like, PhotoCred Ned.
4:23I just was at work, like PhotoCred Ned.
4:25I'm like, that's kind of fly.
4:27Like that's stuck with me.
4:29And then it just, I told my brother about it
4:32and I'm like, man, we think about PhotoCred Ned.
4:35And he was like, man, that's dope.
4:36That's cool.
4:36That fits you.
4:37So I was like, hey, I'm gonna just go
4:39with it like that way.
4:42So it was cool.
4:43It's stuck with me ever since.
4:44So it was like, I like that.
4:46Where it's like, now people,
4:48people don't even use PhotoCred no more for their name.
4:52It's just like, I like how people just identify me
4:56as that, like PhotoCred Ned.
4:59Like, I just like that.
5:01Yeah.
5:01Yeah.
5:02Got a ring to it.
5:03Yeah.
5:05But, and the reason I call you Legendary
5:07because I mean.
5:08Appreciate it.
5:08Your work after it.
5:10I mean, you could pop up to the fence
5:12and just start, bah, bah, bah, bah.
5:14And it's like, to me, I say you never miss
5:17because every, every photo I've seen that you took
5:21and it's like, man, it's almost perfect if not perfect.
5:25Oh, man, I appreciate that.
5:27That's what a legendary status in my eyes come from.
5:30You know, okay, looking at the keychain,
5:31got the camera on.
5:32Yeah, my girl mother gave this to me.
5:34It was out of town.
5:35It was just a little.
5:39Oh, shit, it worked.
5:41Ain't taking no pictures.
5:43People looking at it like, boom.
5:44So like even my brother, he made this for me
5:48with the little thing on there too.
5:50So it was just like little tidbits and stuff.
5:54But I appreciate that too.
5:56Like I love, one thing I am when it comes to photography
6:00and it's never to take over space.
6:02It's just like, I love photography.
6:04I think people need to understand like
6:06my perspective of photography
6:08is that I absolutely love it beyond work.
6:12If I told people, I was like, man,
6:14if I hit the lottery today, tomorrow,
6:15I'm gonna still be a photographer.
6:16Exactly.
6:17So it's just like, when I go into spaces,
6:20I could be there just,
6:21it could be a party for me to chill.
6:23Like, man, I'd be like, man, I need my camera.
6:27And it's not to, because it make me,
6:30and I love the control of it.
6:32It's like I get to control the space that I'm in.
6:35I get to be more,
6:37I could approach anybody,
6:39but he give me access to approach people.
6:41So it's like, when I grab my camera,
6:44it's like, oh, I got all these people in here.
6:46This is a networking event.
6:48I'm taking full advantage of this.
6:50It's like, and it's not to dismiss
6:53any other photographer or anything like that.
6:55It's just like, man, I go in with a mindset of like,
6:58now I'm comfortable because I got my camera.
7:00Now I can move high,
7:02comfortably high, love to move
7:04because I then did it so many places,
7:06so many different situations or different city.
7:09I then did that same exact thing.
7:12So like, when I go in there in those places,
7:15I look at the surroundings.
7:17I look at everything and I look like, okay,
7:19how do I wanna use my light to take these pictures?
7:24So if I'm looking at things with high ceilings,
7:26high white ceilings, faulty ceilings,
7:27I'm looking at things that was black areas
7:30or something like that.
7:31What modifiers do I need?
7:32How do I wanna take these shots
7:35and make them all consistent with my brand?
7:39And it's like a math or a video game to me
7:42when I'm shooting.
7:44So it's just, I love that.
7:45I love that part of it.
7:46So great analogy.
7:47It's like a video game, wow.
7:49Oh yeah, yeah.
7:50A science experiment.
7:51Yeah, absolutely.
7:52And that's what, like I used to game
7:53with my brothers and my cousins.
7:55So it was like, when I got to doing photography,
7:58I stopped gaming because this was my,
8:01this stimulated me in the same space as a video game.
8:05So it was like, when I go shoot
8:06and come home and retouch,
8:09oh man, this is like, it stimulates me the same exact way.
8:12So it was just like,
8:13that's why I don't mind spending hours
8:15and hours on the computer
8:16because I'm feeding the same,
8:20that same beast of like gaming.
8:23So it was just like,
8:24hey, it's colors in front of my face.
8:26So it's dope.
8:28It's like math when you figuring that stuff out.
8:32Sometimes here that's therapeutic, you know?
8:36Yeah.
8:36In your zone, it's like therapy.
8:38Man, when you in there
8:39and you know you doing something,
8:43it's art, man.
8:44It's like the best thing because it's gratifying, man.
8:49Like somebody, what did the guy say?
8:50He said, I think a photographer says something that,
8:56something is vanity and sanity.
9:00He was saying that,
9:03I'm gonna figure out the quote,
9:04but it was, it ain't even got nothing to do.
9:06It ain't technically just photography.
9:09He was saying that turnover is vanity
9:15and profit is sanity,
9:18which was on point because it's like,
9:21as a photographer or creative,
9:24our vanity is the turnover we give to our clients.
9:30Taking these shots, coming in here,
9:32giving this to our,
9:33we're so vain because we love our work,
9:35but people don't understand the work
9:38that we put into what we do.
9:41So the profit gotta keep us sane.
9:43So when he said that,
9:44I thought that was a very profound quote
9:48because man, sometimes I just love what I do
9:52and I do stuff for free.
9:54Like, and people don't even know
9:55how much stuff that I do do things for,
9:59but like it gets to a point where it's like, man,
10:01you still have to feed the beast.
10:03You still, things have to be profitable.
10:05Like all the stuff that we do,
10:07people don't know like when they say
10:09you put your $10,000 in,
10:10and you're a master of your craft,
10:12I don't even put about 25 in
10:14and I still put stuff in.
10:16I still don't feel I'm a master.
10:17So like that has to be reciprocated.
10:20And it's to my discretion of what I want.
10:23That's why I love the business part of it,
10:26like the profitable side.
10:28Because it's like, I was doing this for a long time,
10:31not understanding value,
10:32but now I'm like, man, I get what I want
10:36because this is what I want and it's not negotiable.
10:40Or if it is negotiable, it's to my discretion.
10:43So that's why I love it.
10:44Man, that's amazing.
10:46And, you know, I've learned something too.
10:51There's definitely been events.
10:54I mainly do events.
10:55Brand myself as an event photographer.
10:57So if there's an event or a video production
11:00that, you know, either don't agree with me
11:03or something that I just,
11:04I know it's gonna be a headache at the end of the day.
11:07You know, I price it accordingly
11:09versus something I love or they have an impact
11:12or a good message.
11:13You know, I kinda, you know,
11:15we can negotiate the price.
11:17Yeah.
11:18So let's take it back all the way to like
11:20towards the beginning versus your first photo shoot
11:22that you charged for.
11:24What was that price?
11:25Man, that probably was like $50, $75.
11:27I think I looked at an old, something old.
11:30It had to be in that $50, $75 round.
11:34And this is the one thing,
11:36if I could ever tell people, like upcoming photographers,
11:40if you ever jump into photography,
11:42please go with a studio of a seasoned photographer.
11:47Like go into that Steph Midgett studio,
11:50go into that Jordan Cage studio,
11:52go into anybody who is offering studio time
11:56that you have to pay a monthly fee for.
11:59That will, you listen,
12:01you will jump light years in front of people
12:04when it comes to photography.
12:06And I'm not saying it always have to be skill set,
12:08but in photography, business is always the biggest word.
12:14So like, I don't care what it is.
12:17It's people that don't necessarily
12:18have to have your skill set,
12:19but if they understand the business,
12:22they will jump light years ahead of people
12:24because it's like they understand it.
12:27And like when I was around like those,
12:30like with Stretch or Natasha or Omar or Jordan Cage,
12:36Steph Midgett, like those people and talking to them,
12:40it was like they always used to be like,
12:43hike your prices up, like hike your prices up.
12:46Because we all in a, yeah, we all separate entities,
12:49but we all in this pot together to where it's like,
12:53if everybody shooting and the prices is fluctuating
12:57so far, and that's the thing about like
13:00the upcoming photographers,
13:02that it's not necessarily a skill set
13:05I would say like the upcoming photographers have,
13:08it's like they understand the gear quicker.
13:11They understand like gear is becoming so good
13:14and the software is becoming so good.
13:18Conceptionally, all you need to do is have truly an eye
13:20because your cell phone is like,
13:24that's if you got good composition with your cell phone,
13:28anybody could take a good picture
13:29if you just know how to take a picture.
13:31If a person know how to pose correctly
13:33or you know how light is,
13:35a person could run laps with people around
13:37with a cell phone if they just know
13:39how to take a good picture.
13:41But like now when they jump into photography,
13:44now like the younger cats,
13:45they don't understand like the actual value.
13:48Like man, bro, you can pivot.
13:50Just get around somebody who is seasoned,
13:53who make money off of their photography.
13:55You will be wealthy beyond your means
14:00if you charge the right way.
14:02And some things are, yeah, they are negotiable.
14:05Yeah, you could go to events and all of that type of stuff.
14:07It's been times where, man, I may hit an event
14:11because I know what I just did for that one or two hours
14:14or one hour is gonna make me $5,000
14:19within the next three to four months.
14:21And I'm just going in there, boom, boom, boom,
14:23just in that word.
14:25But I'm also knowing how to market my shots too.
14:28So I'm looking for smiles.
14:29I'm anticipating smiles.
14:31So when I hit events, it took a while to learn how to market
14:36because I know technically I could take a good shot,
14:40but marketing wise, I need to know how to take what shot.
14:43So I have to sit there, I'll ear hustle people
14:46and I'll ear hustle surroundings.
14:49And I watch things when I'm walking through.
14:52So I'll look at people conversations
14:54because I know somebody about to start laughing.
14:57All I need to do is get that.
14:58If I took a thread on Instagram
15:00and my threads is 20 pictures,
15:03or 10 to 20 pictures if you want to,
15:05if I took a picture of this event
15:08and had everybody, majority of the pictures,
15:11they laughing and smiling.
15:13Laughing and smiling is gonna make you feel good.
15:15That's right.
15:16You know, it's gonna make you feel good.
15:18Then I had to learn the color temperatures.
15:21They did a poll between warmer and cooler shots.
15:24Cooler, more people, like 70 to 80% of people
15:27tend to like the warmer shots than the cooler shots.
15:30Cooler shots you can go with,
15:31but it gotta be an artistic vision.
15:33But our skin tones is all warm.
15:35Everybody love that tan, that type of flavor, period.
15:39So your warmer shots is gonna end up
15:41kind of being the more favored.
15:43So once I started learning certain things
15:45and learning my camera,
15:47man, events was like,
15:49man, I could eat up an event quick,
15:50like and know how to and be very personable
15:54with people and get people to smile,
15:55get people to give me the candidates that I want.
15:58So it's a lot though.
16:01I know I'm talking a lot, man.
16:02No, man, that's why we here, you know?
16:05We don't know, you know, don't get this often.
16:07So it's good to hear this for real.
16:09I appreciate it, man.
16:11I mean, I'm glad you brought up the color temperature,
16:14the warm and cool and the break it down
16:17for people that don't understand photography.
16:19That's more of the sunny orange, yellow tones
16:24versus the cool blue.
16:27I know a lot of people take it to heart in movies.
16:31Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
16:33Like I look at it for different type of shots.
16:36Like you can use it like the Kelvin meter.
16:39Like Kelvin meters is on every camera,
16:42but they're better when you shoot,
16:44like for people who understand RAW and shooting in JPEG.
16:49So your RAW files, like as a photographer,
16:52you wanna always, as a novice or whatever the case is,
16:56you have, I would always suggest to shoot in RAW.
16:59Only time I say shooting JPEG is if you are,
17:04let's say you're shooting a, I don't know,
17:06I never shot a, like a football game
17:09or something like that,
17:10but I would think that they would tell you
17:12to shoot kind of like more JPEG pics
17:14because they need those quick
17:16and to turn them around super quick.
17:18Yeah, you're shooting thousands of photos.
17:19Yeah, you're shooting thousands of photos
17:20and you're shooting real quick.
17:23But for the most part, I'm always shooting in RAW,
17:26like every single time.
17:28So the RAW files allow you to manipulate your files more.
17:31So like, even if I shot something in a cooler tone,
17:34I could bring those, I could pull those colors back
17:36in my Kelvin meter or snatching a gray,
17:39a neutral gray on there and color picking it
17:41and getting it back to a neutral color.
17:44So that's the thing, like with those color tones,
17:47I'm really, but you can't be intentional
17:50going a cooler way.
17:52So like if I'm outside and I'm shooting in the winter,
17:56I may go a cooler way because it's catered for the occasion
18:00because it's outside, it's cool.
18:04Like I'm looking for those types of,
18:06I'm not so curious about those warmer tones.
18:09I want to make the shot look cold intentionally.
18:13So yeah.
18:16And I know you brought up Jordan Cage.
18:19I know him as Omar.
18:21That's like my god brother.
18:22That's my brother's best friend
18:25that grew up with the Collin Wood.
18:26Nice.
18:27You know, he brought me under him.
18:28He took that little sexy picture in the background.
18:30You see that when he posted?
18:34The R&B shit.
18:36Yeah, that's when he was doing music, like.
18:39He was singing?
18:40No, he was doing rap.
18:42Oh, what?
18:43He actually got me into like the studio
18:45he was going to with music.
18:47I was recording myself.
18:49Oh, get out of here.
18:50I had a microphone from the PlayStation game.
18:52It was a rap game.
18:53I was like, wait, this is the same thing.
18:55You plug in the computers.
18:57I tried that.
18:57I started recording myself.
18:59And he was like, nah, man,
19:01if you're going to take it seriously,
19:02you need to take a crash test.
19:04He saw my notebooks.
19:05They was like holes, ripped papers.
19:07You got to get you a good, bounded notebook.
19:11You got to take your stuff seriously.
19:13I'm like, okay.
19:14It's just a notebook, but all right.
19:16But you know, that stuck with me.
19:18And then even now, like from music,
19:19now we're both in photography.
19:21He's stepping into the video more,
19:23same with you.
19:24Yeah, yeah.
19:25I'm just loving to grow,
19:26but I know him as O-One.
19:29I'm calling him O-One next time I see him.
19:32Yeah, that's my brother, man.
19:35Yeah, that's good.
19:37I haven't learned any skills with him
19:41through photography, but like just, you know,
19:43if I ever need something, he's always there.
19:46Nice, that's dope.
19:47Like, yeah, he's definitely, like he,
19:50him and my boy Dave, Artful Panda,
19:53they cool, they've been cool for a while.
19:55So I knew him from him,
19:57but then I ended up knowing him a little bit more
20:00in the photography world.
20:01And like, even when I first started,
20:03it was just like,
20:05I didn't know none of them at all.
20:07You know what I'm saying?
20:08Like the only person I really knew was Natasha Herbert.
20:12And Natasha Herbert was my dog from after high school.
20:16Like I graduated from John Hayden,
20:19we ended up going to East Tech.
20:21But I am getting cool with Natasha.
20:23Like when me and Natasha been cool since like,
20:26since I was like 19 on out,
20:28but we like, that's my dog, that's my heart.
20:30I love her to death.
20:32So like, I didn't know nobody.
20:34And then what made me kind of jump into photography
20:37and start charging,
20:38cause I seen her say this one time on the Gram.
20:41She was like, she had a post where she was like,
20:43man, look, photography is so wide open in Cleveland
20:46that we all can eat.
20:50And when she said that, it made me feel like,
20:52oh, I'm not stepping on nobody toes if I charge.
20:55You know, it's a lot of people,
20:58it's a lot of people out here
21:00that's shooting, that's charging.
21:03So it's like, it's plenty of people,
21:06it's plenty of money to go around.
21:08And once I understood that it was like,
21:11oh yeah, this is something I'm charging.
21:13I'm investing in all my equipment.
21:15I'm going, I'm about to do this.
21:18So that's what made it just,
21:21I appreciate her because she gave me the mindset
21:23to like, yeah, go ahead and charge.
21:25So you were one in $75.
21:29It was, you glad to charge something.
21:32So that's why I say like,
21:34if the young photographers, if you can,
21:38if they ever tell you anything,
21:40hey, it costs $350 to $400 to be here for a month,
21:44it is by far the best investment that you could ever make.
21:50Mostly, they always have their lights there.
21:52You probably could shoot 24 seven,
21:54you make it, you gonna make the money back ASAP
21:57and they gonna get you to charge correctly
22:00and they gonna show you stuff on top of that.
22:03So if a person just saying like,
22:05okay, let's say, stepping into a spot,
22:07let's say, I don't know,
22:10maybe 400 something to go there a month.
22:13What all you gaining and gathering,
22:17going to these spaces, renting these places out,
22:20you under a wing of photographers,
22:22they're going to sharpen your skills.
22:25Like within a year,
22:26you're going to be able to do profitable shots.
22:32Like you're gonna be able to make a good living
22:36as a secondary or a primary income.
22:39So I definitely encourage anybody.
22:41That was the one thing I wish I would have did.
22:44My thing was just that I felt like I had a better teacher
22:48than everybody else.
22:50Like my brother was my ultimate mentor
22:53when it came to photography.
22:55So like the stuff that he was telling me,
22:57I wouldn't get in from nobody else,
22:59but I never invested in anybody else neither,
23:01but I never seen any other photographers
23:05really do the different type of stuff.
23:08So I used to see like within Cleveland,
23:10it was just like, I used to look at people work
23:14and I'm like, man, these pictures is dope.
23:16But, and this ain't no not,
23:19everybody's stuff look the same.
23:21It looked like I seen four or five photographers
23:23where they are all shooting like elite levels,
23:27but it was like, man,
23:28I can't tell the difference between each one,
23:31even though everything looked great.
23:33So my thing was like, man, I want to shoot different.
23:37I want to be able to do how they shoot
23:40with that high end retouch,
23:42but I also want to find me in a sense with,
23:47and I'm a figure out a way to find me
23:50to where I can be slightly different.
23:53And that's what I kind of tweak my craft
23:57amongst my peers.
23:59But in the same sense,
24:02ain't none of this stuff new anyway,
24:04because it's everybody taking from somebody.
24:07So I just wanted to be what with in Cleveland
24:09in this type of stuff,
24:11I want to be slightly different with what I do.
24:15So, yeah, I mean,
24:16I couldn't even say I'm still finding my style.
24:19Like I'll take great photos,
24:20but all you take amazing photos is like,
24:24this photo, I know that's alien, that's alien.
24:28Yeah, yeah, but I love that though.
24:30You know, listen, that's the thing.
24:35I would rather somebody say that's alien,
24:38or that could be about four or five, I don't know.
24:41Well, I'm still finding that
24:42to where people can say that.
24:44Yeah, and that's, but you want to see,
24:47I say like this, to dig into yourself
24:50and find who you are, man, you can't be scared.
24:57It's a trick to it though,
24:58because like you said, being marketable
24:59and taking those key shots,
25:02being artistic and being,
25:04having those photos marketable
25:06for business to use it to market,
25:09like that combination of both,
25:10and like my brand is Alienize Photos Media,
25:16more of the cooler tones, not always,
25:18but it's branded under the cool tone.
25:21Blue is one of my branded colors.
25:22So I try to stay on that cool tone,
25:25but I know, like you said,
25:27what pictures are marketable and what to shoot for.
25:29So I do those safe photos,
25:31but I always try to experiment something,
25:33especially on weddings, I love weddings.
25:35I love them too, man.
25:36Yeah, you definitely, you definitely want to,
25:41you want to do it the most flattering way.
25:44And that's where, and it's not like you just,
25:48I'm catering to people needs and wants.
25:50You're not trying to do that too much,
25:52but you also know what's getting you referrals too.
25:56So like, and that's the thing
25:57that I'm always looking at.
25:59I'm always paying attention to things.
26:02Like for me, me personally,
26:05when it came to events,
26:08I liked Stretch to work the most.
26:10And the only reason why I say I liked Stretch
26:12to work the most when it came to events,
26:14because Stretch was doing something
26:17that I didn't see nobody else do.
26:21So when it came to events,
26:23if you pay attention,
26:24I look at, and I'm real critical like on how,
26:28like the technique of what people are doing.
26:30So like, and that's what makes me,
26:32so like I'll see something like,
26:35okay, when it come to portrait work,
26:37I want to do something close to Lindsay Allen.
26:40She is a New York photographer, fashion photographer,
26:42amazing, super dope.
26:44But I want to, my brother always said like,
26:46if you ever want to get better,
26:47look at a picture and see how it's shot.
26:49Just look at it.
26:50Don't look at the BTS's,
26:52just look at the shot
26:54and see where the light is coming at,
26:55where the highlights and the shadows lay at.
26:57Look at everything about this picture
26:59and you'll be able to kind of understand
27:02like where the kick lights,
27:03where the key light was at,
27:04where all of those types of lights,
27:06where the hair light is at.
27:07So when I looked at Stretch's photography,
27:13his was the hardest to figure out
27:14because it was like,
27:17man, how is he popping flash on people,
27:22preserving the environment with strobes and everything,
27:25like when he hit those clubs,
27:27catching the moment where it's in a fast motion,
27:32where they popping bottles and getting the sparkles.
27:35Like when you sit there and break down
27:37and analyze the actual shot, the way he shot,
27:41you thinking like,
27:42what settings on his camera that he got this at?
27:46Like, I will always think of that.
27:49Like, what is he doing?
27:51And it took me, I knew I could take clean shots.
27:54I knew I could do all of that stuff.
27:57But the main thing was what shot,
28:01what's more important, a technical shot or a good shot?
28:05And once I understood like a good shot
28:08is better than a technical shot,
28:11it made more, photography made more sense.
28:14It gave me more freedom
28:15because I could technically shoot a clean shot in a club,
28:20but that clean shot,
28:21I might be trying to shoot a clean shot and miss the moment.
28:26So you gotta, when I tell people,
28:29if I could ever tell anybody anything,
28:31when you're going to a club,
28:33camera first, light second.
28:36You exposing for the environment first.
28:40That's why I say camera first.
28:41So you set, I'm adjusting my camera
28:44for the club, for the event.
28:46And then I'm putting my flash on the back end.
28:49So most people do flash first.
28:51That's those paparazzi shots in camera second.
28:55So they want to expose a certain type of way
28:58with their light.
29:00No, I'm exposing for the club
29:02because most people don't know
29:04your capabilities of your camera.
29:06Like, and check what type of camera you have.
29:09So if you're an event photographer,
29:12go more of a camera that's good and low light.
29:15That mean I can push my ISO higher.
29:17If I could push my ISO higher,
29:20like I shoot with Z6s.
29:22So I know my native ISO is at 12,000.
29:26So check where your native ISO is at.
29:28So I could go push my camera to 12,000.
29:30Do I ever do it?
29:31No.
29:33I'm hooked.
29:34Sometimes I'll, 6,400.
29:36I'll push it over there at 6,400 if I had to.
29:40Shoot around maybe three, two, four, five in my shutter
29:44and maybe 125 in my,
29:48no, I'll shoot three, two, or three, five at my, my.
29:54So high speed scene?
29:55No, I ain't doing no high speed scene.
29:57You said three, two?
29:57I like, not in my shutter, in my, my f-stop.
30:02Yeah, yeah, yeah, my aperture.
30:03I'll shoot like three, two, or three, five.
30:05And then in my shutter, I'll shoot around 125.
30:11And if I just need to, I'll go to 80
30:13because I got IBIS that is,
30:16that stabilization inside my camera.
30:18So I'm calculating everything
30:20or I might have vibration reduction on my lens.
30:23So I'm at, so I've been shot in the club
30:26at 40 on my shutter if I had to.
30:29You know, because I'm pulling in the,
30:31the lower you go on your shutter,
30:33the more ambient light you're bringing into your camera.
30:36So it's like, I'm already calculating that
30:39and I'll do so much research.
30:41So when I edit, I'm always looking at YouTube,
30:43learning stuff.
30:44So I'm editing YouTube, looking at,
30:47if I can't watch it, I'm listening to it.
30:49So I'm thinking of every single thing.
30:51That's why I say, like I put my hours in
30:53but I'm still learning
30:54because every situation you go in is totally different.
30:59So it's like, I'm looking at every site, anything,
31:02because I love this, man.
31:02It's my passion, love it.
31:04I kind of want to touch on it like that,
31:06that education and that research and studying,
31:09like you said, studying other people's work
31:10and being on YouTube or even, you know,
31:13consulting with other people in the industry,
31:15mainly photographers.
31:16So how important, because I know you're busy,
31:20how, and you know, in a relationship,
31:23on a married or not.
31:25Yeah, I'm in a relationship now.
31:26Relationship, so I know how that is, you know,
31:28same boat.
31:31How important is that for balance,
31:33whether you know, being, you know,
31:35quality time with the family and the loved ones
31:38versus studying and, you know, taking the gigs and editing.
31:42How do you allocate that time for self-improvement?
31:47The way I try to use that time, I will,
31:55like the one thing about it,
31:56I got my girlfriend, she's super supportive.
31:59She's like a really, like,
32:01and she's her own entrepreneur too.
32:03And she's a real estate agent as well.
32:05So I love it because we both have things that,
32:08we both respect each other's time and business.
32:11So it's like, I'm more, I'm a very,
32:13I'm more productive in the morning.
32:16I'm a morning person.
32:17I can get up like five o'clock in the morning
32:19and like my old job was a six to two weekends off,
32:23like six in the morning, two in the weekends off.
32:26So I'm programmed for the morning.
32:28So like now I'm just like,
32:31I find times where I know I'm very productive at.
32:34It's either in the morning or if I do an event
32:37and I got my stuff with me and I can edit right then.
32:39Because when I do an event, I'm on adrenaline.
32:42Like, all right, I ain't tired.
32:45Unless I done did like a wedding or something
32:48around five and a half, six hours,
32:50then I was like, hey, I'll see you tomorrow.
32:52But if I did like a two hour event
32:54and it was a turn up, oh yeah,
32:55if I got my stuff with me, boom, boom, boom,
32:57I could rock out.
32:59But I balance things based off of,
33:05I balance things based off of like how I,
33:08like a few of my week.
33:09So I'll see some things like, but I'm still like,
33:12this isn't in a space where I'm still learning.
33:14So I'm not, I'm not perfect.
33:18You know what I'm saying?
33:19Like I didn't miss time dates
33:20and all of that type of stuff.
33:22Just miscalculating life, you know?
33:26But one thing about me,
33:27if I have ever miscalculated something
33:30or I didn't deliver on the timely frame,
33:32I am the type of person, man,
33:34I'll make it up 10 fold to somebody.
33:36Like, and I will go out my way to make it up to somebody
33:40because it's like, people invest in what we do.
33:45And I do photography so much,
33:49sometimes that gets away from us
33:52as the owner or the entrepreneur
33:55to where it's like, man,
33:57somebody is truly investing $350
34:01every session for a photo shoot.
34:06We got a luxury expense.
34:09So like, and when people come to me,
34:12they're not coming regular.
34:14They're getting their makeup done,
34:15their hair done, their outfits.
34:17So they might be a thousand yen on this photo shoot
34:21just to put on social media.
34:23They don't even frame it, half of this stuff.
34:25They're just doing it for the gram.
34:28And-
34:28Our website.
34:29Yeah, or a website or something.
34:30Really, for social media, for real.
34:33Like, it really boiled down to it.
34:35You're a thousand yen on it,
34:37so we're a luxury expense.
34:39But I don't take that for granted.
34:42Like, man, when those people come in
34:44and they scared to death
34:46and never took a picture in their life,
34:49it's such an honor that I get to work with them
34:53because of, man, the one thing people always tell you,
34:57any review of any shoot I ever did,
34:59people will tell you their comfort in me.
35:02They'll be like, man, I love working with Ned
35:04because I'm having fun.
35:06I know, this is weird.
35:08I know it's like, you ain't the person
35:11taking your selfie today, girl.
35:13I'm taking it.
35:15Oh, it's like, I love that portion of it
35:17to where it's like, I get to give you
35:20a great experience that it's no preconceived notions,
35:23or even if you did, I'd have broke
35:26all those preconceived notions
35:27because I'm here having fun with you.
35:29I'm not even letting you think that we in a photo shoot.
35:32We have a casual, fun conversation.
35:34Oh, but I need this shot right here.
35:35Oh, you little girl, girl.
35:37Hey, I need you to do this turn real quick.
35:38Let me get this little shot.
35:39I already got all of the things I want to,
35:41but I'm building a confidence
35:44in this love for their self,
35:46this liberation within the client
35:48to where it's like, I like doing that with women
35:51and I love doing that with men
35:52because men are more standoffish
35:55when it comes to photo shoots.
35:56Especially weddings.
35:57Man, they be like, and there it's like, man,
35:59when you see the, you want them to preserve
36:02their masculinity and still be cool.
36:04And when you get that shot of them,
36:05they be like, man, this was raw, brother.
36:08Like, man, you dope, man, you the best ever.
36:11Like, man, I ain't even got to the meat of this, man.
36:15Nobody did this.
36:19So, you know, speaking with a new photographer,
36:22they're, you know, maybe went to college
36:24and they kind of want to take it professional.
36:26They never charged yet,
36:27but they're looking too charged
36:29and want to step into that full-time entrepreneurship.
36:32Yeah.
36:32How important is the client experience for them?
36:36You saying like, as far as?
36:39Making them comfortable, making sure, you know,
36:42everything goes well, serving the customer.
36:44Oh, yeah, that's number one.
36:45You got to be able to do that.
36:47Like, when I do photo shoots with people,
36:50especially if they never did a photo shoot before,
36:52I can tell them the light, my light could look good.
36:56You could look good.
36:57You can have on Gucci, Louis Vuitton, hair could be done.
37:00You got the top makeup artists in the city do your stuff.
37:03We could be in the most luxurious space.
37:06Everything could look great.
37:07But if you don't have no confidence,
37:09I can see it on every picture.
37:11So the thing that I beg of people
37:14and I build up in clients is confidence.
37:20Like, you have to smile with them.
37:21You have to laugh at them.
37:23You have to refrain from saying certain things.
37:26You cannot show your emotions
37:27when it comes to certain clients
37:29if they did something that was maybe inappropriate
37:34or if they did something that was not flattering.
37:37So you have to walk them back into a space
37:40because the thing about photography
37:42is that even that they don't understand
37:46about what we see the forest beyond the trees,
37:51so we see everything.
37:53I see everything of how this session need to go.
37:56I see the shot that I need from you.
37:58When you give me a reference picture, okay, cool.
38:01You're not that person in that picture.
38:04You might not be able capable of doing that type of move,
38:08but this is our origin point.
38:09This is our reference point.
38:11So we gonna take that, use it as a reference,
38:14but we gonna own the shot.
38:16We gonna do what we wanna do with it.
38:18So, and I sell that to people
38:21and I get them going and get them to understand,
38:24man, just trust me.
38:26Just trust me.
38:28Once I get to shoot with them
38:30and they'll see those shots,
38:33and usually I'll shoot to a point
38:34where I get that shot
38:36that I know where that shot look good.
38:38Then once I show them that,
38:40then it kinda like, oh, okay, I trust this guy.
38:43I trust this guy.
38:45So I say, with the new photographers,
38:51man, you have to give them a grand sense of comfortability.
38:55Because if they're not comfortable,
38:58man, I have worked,
38:59I probably worked with one client
39:00that just was like, oh, she was like, ah.
39:04But I needed that because it helped me to see
39:09how important it was to get them comfortable.
39:13So now, I go in there, man,
39:15I turn out to be people's best friend.
39:17Because I have, I just, I understand,
39:19I never undermine how much that,
39:23that's how vulnerable you are
39:25when it comes to photography, man.
39:28Like when somebody else is taking your picture.
39:30I know for sure,
39:30I had to take some naked pictures with a photographer.
39:33So that was like, it was dope,
39:37but it was, it was.
39:38Different.
39:39Yeah, because it gave me,
39:40I had to understand what people went through.
39:43It was with Steph Midgett for his birthday.
39:45He took pictures of like 25 different photographers, nude.
39:48But all we had was a piece of equipment over our cell.
39:51And he didn't edit these pictures, neither.
39:53He just put them in black and white.
39:55Post, put them up in his studio
39:58for people to see on his birthday.
40:01It was the most live-est thing.
40:03And I look, I'm like, all right.
40:05When he told me about it, I'm like,
40:06bro, this is one of the broadest ideas ever.
40:08Like, I gotta be a part of this, this is art.
40:11So I'm like, I mean, my whole time,
40:12he was like, all right, bro, we gonna shoot this day.
40:14I'm like, all right, cool.
40:15So I'm like, full nervous.
40:17But I'm like, all right, I'm gonna give him some stuff, too.
40:19I'm gonna pose.
40:20If I ain't gonna do nothing, I'm gonna pose today.
40:23I remember hearing about that.
40:24Actually, her mother, she was one of those photographers.
40:26That's so dope.
40:27It was dope.
40:28And then look, I ran out of poses.
40:30And he kept shooting.
40:31I'm like, bro, I ain't got nothing else.
40:34I'm like, he kept shooting.
40:35I'm like, bro, stop.
40:36He was like, no.
40:38And then it made it made sense.
40:40Because when he didn't stop shooting,
40:43he kept shooting, it made me feel vulnerable.
40:44And I was nervous and scared
40:47because I was all out of ideas.
40:50And I'm like, and it made me feel what my clients feel.
40:53And it was just like, man, in this moment,
40:57it just made more sense
40:58to where I always have her appreciation for my clients
41:01and making them feel comfortable.
41:03Because you got to, you got to.
41:05Because it's like, it's a, I can't even,
41:09it's hard for me to even shoot a client
41:12where they not talking to you,
41:14where they just in here like, oh, okay.
41:16It's like.
41:17Yeah, I definitely been through that.
41:20Sometimes it's hard, but like more of a portraits,
41:23you know, photo sessions, you know,
41:25music kind of alleviates that.
41:27Well, what's your favorite song?
41:29Yeah.
41:29I don't have one.
41:30Then I place in the, oh, can we play?
41:32Oh, yes.
41:33It take them a while to warm up.
41:35That's the thing about clients, man.
41:37It take them a little while.
41:38Once they warm up, man, the electricity that you have,
41:42it's like y'all on the planet by yourself
41:45and y'all get to create and that's the thing that I love.
41:49That's what I love about people who don't model.
41:53But when you got those creators which you work with,
41:57ain't a magic in the world like that
41:59when two creators get together.
42:01It's the greatest thing of all time.
42:02It's like, you can't do no wrong.
42:05Yeah, it's, yeah, that's what I love about it, man.
42:08But I love it though, man, it's dope.
42:10Yes, it is.
42:12I know you kind of spoke on those early days,
42:15working nine to five.
42:16It wasn't nine to five, but it was started at six.
42:19But nine to five grind.
42:21I know you had to wake up early.
42:23But how do you prevent burnout in a field
42:26where you're often working evenings and weekends?
42:31Are you talking about like when it comes to photography
42:33or are you talking about photography and work?
42:36Like when I was working my job.
42:38Well, both are, you know, now photographers,
42:42like mainly events are like in the evenings
42:44or weekends, prime time.
42:46Yeah, okay, all right.
42:48With burnout, burnout is for real.
42:50It is.
42:50So it's like, and sometimes like you don't know that
42:53until you really start,
42:56until like the clientele start growing.
42:58Then it's like, you can't,
43:00you always got to treat your business
43:02as if it's the top, like if it's the top business,
43:07because you don't,
43:08like I don't never like to say like small businesses.
43:11Only time you want to say small business
43:12is when you going for a grant.
43:15But for the most part, if you,
43:17business is business.
43:19You competing with portrait innovations
43:22with other photographers.
43:24So guess what?
43:25You got to think big.
43:29So, and you got to think big for big occasions
43:31because when it go the other way,
43:33you better be ready.
43:35Because when those floodgates come through,
43:36man, them people, hey, I need you, I need you,
43:38I need you, I need you.
43:40Man, it's been so many times where I wasn't prepared
43:42that I missed those DMs.
43:44Man, I didn't miss probably,
43:47I couldn't tell you how many thousand dollars
43:48worth of DMs I didn't miss.
43:50Just because I wasn't ready for that influx of people.
43:55So I think like when it comes to balancing
43:58all of that, of like that overflow,
44:01you just have to, man, don't take on more.
44:04It's okay to say no.
44:05It's okay to say no.
44:08Because like I used to say yes to everything.
44:11And then just, and then I used to say yes
44:15to everything and was undervalued.
44:18And then you saying yes to things
44:20where you not getting paid,
44:21makes you dislike your passion.
44:24You know, so I had to get to that point
44:27where, hey, all right, y'all can use me,
44:31but it's gonna cost you.
44:32And this is what it's gonna cost you.
44:33So if I'm this valued at this price
44:36and y'all are cool with it, that's cool.
44:39But at the point that I ever feel overwhelmed with that,
44:41guess what, guess what's gonna happen?
44:43My prices go up.
44:45Now I ain't for everybody.
44:47You know what I'm saying?
44:48So I had to talk to God about hiking my prices up.
44:54So when I talked to God about like a number
44:56that I was comfortable with
44:58and I said it out loud like 10 times,
45:01oh yeah, this is my price point now.
45:02So yeah, I'm not for everybody.
45:04When I did that, it was people that was gonna pay it,
45:08it was people that wasn't.
45:09And I was cool with it either way.
45:11I didn't care about missing out on the money.
45:14And then too, I would always send that to other people.
45:17So it's like, that's the community
45:18of photographers that we in.
45:20Even though I can't get it,
45:22but I know good photographers
45:23that can take care of you and do that.
45:25Yeah, our stuff may not be the same,
45:28but I want you to be taken care of
45:31because this is your budget.
45:33It's just when you had those people
45:34with champagne tastes on a beer budget,
45:38it's like, all right now,
45:40I can't, that's why I give them plenty of options.
45:42You can give me one hour.
45:45Okay, you want to give me for multiple hours?
45:46Well, this is the price for multiple hours.
45:48So I had to think of it in a way
45:50to where it made sense for me and the client, so.
45:55How big is finding that happy medium?
45:57Maybe it's like a client that you want to work with,
46:00but you know they don't have a budget.
46:03Oh, I missed out on some bread one time.
46:04It was crazy you said that.
46:06I had like, it was just one client that I worked with
46:10and they had to have these headshots
46:13and it was like maybe about 20 people.
46:15So I had quote them for like,
46:17maybe about four grand for the headshots.
46:20I forgot, it was somewhere around there.
46:22It was like four grand,
46:24but then it was this other company that they were.
46:27The other company was upstairs
46:30and they had like 35 people,
46:37but their budget was only at 1500,
46:40but I really wanted that one.
46:42Like I wanted both of them,
46:44but I wanted both of them.
46:47But it was hard for me to not quote these people
46:50for this four grand and then say,
46:52I can knock down these people,
46:54which these people that had 35 plus people wanted 1500,
46:59but they even wanted me to do more,
47:02a little bit more work,
47:03like headshots and portrait.
47:05You know what I'm saying?
47:06Like a full body portrait.
47:07And I wanted to do them bad
47:09because all of the people that I was doing
47:12were prestigious people.
47:13I knew there was gonna be clients.
47:15I knew if I could get 10 of them people,
47:18there was gonna be clients.
47:19And then when I think of a client,
47:20I think of a,
47:21if I get you one person,
47:23I'm gonna get you for life some type of way,
47:26because whether I get you in business,
47:27you gonna need family shoots,
47:28you gonna need something, something, something,
47:30something, something, something, something, something.
47:30So, but I didn't get that shoot for the four grand
47:36and I didn't get the shoot for the 15,
47:37but the 15 was sitting in my lap,
47:40but I just could not tell them
47:44I was gonna accept the 15,
47:45even though I wanted that one bad.
47:47I wanted that one bad
47:48because I knew that one was gonna give me
47:51so much more than the four.
47:53It's just that I worked with that company previously
47:57and if I would have went down to there,
47:59I could never have went back up to there.
48:02So I was just trying to find a good negotiating way to say,
48:07I can't do this, but I can do this.
48:10But I would like to come back to this
48:12at some point into my life,
48:14if y'all can honor that.
48:16But it was just one of those things.
48:19But me sticking to my word,
48:23missing out on that four grand and that 1500,
48:26the next month I pulled in like 12 grand.
48:30You know what I'm saying?
48:31So some things ain't technically for you at that point,
48:35like you gotta find out what's for you.
48:37So yeah, it kinda hurt,
48:39but I stood on what I felt that was right.
48:43You know, like me, what I built,
48:46what I said was etched in stone,
48:48what's on that paper when I send it
48:50or that digital file when I send those prices over.
48:54This is what I stand on.
48:55This is what it costs for this type of service.
48:58So when I did that, man, it's like, come on, man,
49:01I locked in bigger clients.
49:03You know what I'm saying?
49:05Sometimes we just, we don't be seeing
49:07so far down the line,
49:09but if you believe in what you believe in, man,
49:12you're locking in those clients, man, I'm telling you.
49:15Yeah.
49:16So it kinda sounds like if you get a client
49:20or it could be a friend or anybody,
49:22but they like your work the first time,
49:26going all the way back to the client experience
49:28and you excelled in it.
49:30You know, it's almost like a lifetime client.
49:33Yeah.
49:33Have you ever had a lifetime client?
49:34Yeah, I got a girl that I shoot every,
49:37like since, for five years,
49:39I've been full-time, October would be five years.
49:42So I'm a full-time photographer.
49:45I shoot her and her son every year
49:49at the end of the year.
49:50That's, it is the most gratifying thing
49:55because it's like, man,
49:57I plan on seeing this kid grow up out of school.
50:01I just seen her yesterday,
50:03matter of fact, at a lounge
50:06and she had a tragedy that happened with her
50:08and it's just it,
50:09like you feel it because it's not like a,
50:12man, I'll take a picture, boom, boom.
50:13It's like, man, you keeping up with people.
50:15You keep, it ain't no different from a barber
50:18to a kid sitting in a chair with him
50:20and he just gonna cut his hair every,
50:22he gonna know his family.
50:24So it's just like, man, I get clients that,
50:27man, I get this, I get them on a business shot.
50:30Oh, I need family pictures.
50:32Oh, I need this.
50:33Oh, I need that.
50:34Oh, we locked in for life.
50:36And the more and more I deal with them,
50:39the more situations I have,
50:42I may have somewhere a deal come up
50:44where I hit the client up,
50:45hey, look, I don't know what you got going on
50:47but I'm running this special for this month.
50:50Like boom, boom, boom, boom, just catch you.
50:51I don't have to tell nobody nothing.
50:53I just let them see from promo
50:55but those type of people, I just like,
50:58I always kind of like,
51:00hey, blah, blah, blah, blah,
51:01this is what's going on.
51:03So it's like,
51:04and sometimes it don't even be about the bread.
51:06Sometimes it'd be like,
51:08we'd be locked in so deep to where it's just like,
51:10man, I might pull up on them and just blast them.
51:12Like boom, boom, boom.
51:13Man, y'all take that, y'all take care.
51:15You know what I'm saying?
51:16Because we do so much business
51:18to where it's like,
51:19man, I'm always a person that remember
51:21so much stuff with people.
51:23You know, to where it's like,
51:25man, thank you, thank you.
51:26Like I love this business
51:28but man, people will see me out there with my camera
51:30and I'll just shoot.
51:31I'll go out in these Cleveland events
51:33and shoot and go shoot.
51:36It's therapy for me.
51:38It's perfect practice.
51:40It's networking.
51:41You gain so much stuff doing that, man.
51:43So it's, and you build clientele.
51:47You build clientele.
51:48Like those networking events go out there.
51:51You have to guerrilla market yourself,
51:54put your feet on the ground and use your skillset.
51:57And you never know what arena you will fall into
52:02dealing with one person or just going.
52:06Cause man, it will open you up.
52:10And God will, I got something for you in the head.
52:13Just keep doing what you're doing.
52:15So I buy and listen.
52:17So it sounds like marketing is important.
52:22Yeah.
52:24So what has been the most effective way
52:26that you've marketed whether that's word of mouth
52:29or referrals from other brands?
52:31Gram, Instagram.
52:34Instagram is really where I quit my job.
52:37Okay.
52:37And I was making good money there.
52:39And it was just that I had a product that I was good at
52:45to where it's like, boom.
52:48Man, Instagram is the best way.
52:51Man, people sell so much stuff,
52:53whether it's TikTok, Instagram or anything like that.
52:56And how much do it cost?
52:57Nothing.
52:58It's free.
52:59It's free.
53:00Instagram is free.
53:01So it's like, man, I show my skillset,
53:04but I have a, like before I jumped
53:06into photography full time,
53:08I wanted to make sure that I could do certain things.
53:10Now I might not be the best portrait photographer in the city.
53:14I might not be the best event photographer in the city.
53:17I might not be the best wedding photographer in the city.
53:19I might not be the best headshot photographer in the city.
53:23I might not be the best product photographer in the city,
53:26but I'm good at marketing all five of those.
53:29And that's the difference between me
53:31and most photographers.
53:32Like I'm like a one-stop shop
53:34when it comes to everything.
53:35Anything that I do marketing on,
53:37like as far as product, wedding,
53:40I'm like all, like if it's a,
53:43if you rate me five stars, I'm four on all of them.
53:47Like I see my skillset in the fours on all of them.
53:51Everybody know I shoot clean
53:52and I'm very technical when it comes to lighting.
53:56So like, and that was the thing
53:57when it came to photography,
54:00that I wanted to be,
54:01I don't want you to go to that other photographer
54:03for this marketing shot, like with your product.
54:06Come to me, I do it.
54:07But I'm gonna show you the proof is in the pudding.
54:10So everything that I do,
54:11especially when it comes to retouching,
54:15most people send their stuff off now to retouchers.
54:18I don't.
54:19Everything I do, I may have sent two or three jobs
54:21in my lifetime to a retoucher
54:24just to see how I was gonna do.
54:26And two of them was with two clients
54:28and one of them was with somebody that wasn't a client.
54:31And this might've been two years ago,
54:34everything I do, I retouch myself.
54:36And that's no knock against other people.
54:38But my main thing when it comes to retouching,
54:41this is my main thing with retouchers.
54:46It's like a painter,
54:49like a person who's drawing and a person who paint.
54:53If you drew something on a canvas,
54:57let's say it was etched in and you the artist
54:59and you formulated this idea, boom.
55:02Then somebody come in and paint what you drew.
55:08Whose art is it now?
55:14You may have came with the original idea,
55:15but what do people see?
55:17They're gonna see the retouch, the final look of it.
55:21Man, retouchers take pictures too,
55:23be taught to the upper top level.
55:26Now, I'm not saying like, okay,
55:28if Maybelline was on the line
55:30and they gave me a, hey, Ned, I need you to shoot this.
55:33Guess what I would be doing?
55:35I'd be spending the top dollar
55:38for the top retoucher to take this
55:41because I need it to be taken to it
55:43because I know they're a prestige top dollar.
55:46We getting the top top dollar.
55:48And I'm telling y'all,
55:50this retoucher did this on my picture.
55:53So the retoucher getting credit anyway.
55:56And that'd be my main thing.
55:57That's my main gripe when it comes to certain stuff
56:00because it's like, yeah, y'all do it,
56:03but I don't, I just, I respect the original idea of it.
56:08And that's what makes me like,
56:09and like now software, the way software is,
56:12you can do it yourself.
56:13You don't need a retoucher
56:14unless you just don't have the time for it.
56:17And you get like an unflunked volume of stuff
56:20where you just need a retoucher.
56:21I just be thinking like, man,
56:23what if this retoucher blow up in India and Pakistan
56:26and I need to knock this stuff out
56:30for this client that's on my yams.
56:34He needed in a couple of hours.
56:36The retoucher ain't nowhere to be found.
56:39I got to bust this edit down.
56:41That's be my mentality.
56:42So I always looked at it like,
56:44with retouchers, it's just like,
56:45I can never, I love what I do.
56:49Remember like, I think to a certain degree like,
56:51but it's depending on how you look at it.
56:53If you're looking at a strict business,
56:54I'm just here to make money.
56:55I can care less about the creativity process.
56:58I don't care about the creative stuff.
56:59I never want to do exhibit.
57:02I don't care.
57:03I'm just here to run it up.
57:05Then go get your reach.
57:06You go have your business operation
57:09the way you see fit.
57:11But when I'm talking about pure purists,
57:15that's the other side of it I don't talk about.
57:18Like, because as humble as I am,
57:20and I'm extremely humble,
57:22like man, I got an arrogant side of me too
57:23when it comes to this,
57:24because I'm a competitor, you know?
57:26So it's like, when it comes to like
57:28the nitty gritty stuff of it,
57:30it's like, that's the other side.
57:40You ain't heard of me, Steve.
57:42That's how I'm tucked.
57:43I heard a lot of, quite a few photographers,
57:46you know, they do have, you know,
57:47retouchers, I mean,
57:48not even people that work closely with them.
57:51Like you said, maybe in India or somewhere overseas.
57:54Yeah, and I ain't knocking it if they could do it.
57:56Like, if you got a retoucher,
57:58if you can retouch the way they retouch,
58:02oh, I ain't knocking it, they ain't retouch.
58:03I'll never knock it.
58:05Like those type of people,
58:08A, because I know your work,
58:11but who am I at the end of the day
58:13to really say anything about anybody?
58:15As long as you're getting your money
58:17and you're taking care of your family,
58:18but when it comes to like a purist
58:20or a certain person of like skill,
58:23when I'm looking at skill,
58:25like, man, it's like, it's a separation.
58:27When I get to separating things,
58:29I be looking like,
58:30I can't put you in this class that,
58:33like as much as I like Drake,
58:35I can't put you in Kendrick class.
58:37You know what I'm saying?
58:38Because you got people that wrote for you.
58:40Yeah, the product is, the song was dope,
58:43but when we break it down,
58:46you not a Kendrick, you know what I'm saying?
58:49Like you are, but I like Drake though.
58:51You know what I'm saying?
58:52So it's just like, I guess at the end of the day,
58:56that's amongst like your peers,
58:59like the photographer's photographer
59:02or the, that type of thing, or the rapper's rapper.
59:06But at the end of the day, it's all for the client.
59:08The client, the only person that care about anything.
59:10You know what I'm saying?
59:10The stuff they don't know on the back end.
59:12Yeah, the back end where you know the other people,
59:14the old school basketball,
59:15he ain't like, man, get out of here.
59:18Old school rappers like,
59:19man, they got everybody right now.
59:21They Milly Vanillies.
59:24That's where, you know,
59:25the business owner versus the true artist.
59:28Yeah, yeah.
59:29Kind of comparison.
59:29Man, my brother told me something,
59:31I always go quote my brother.
59:32He was like, man, artists look for inspirations.
59:36Professionals go to work.
59:39You know, so it's like at the end of the day,
59:41you still got to be a professional.
59:43The client needs what the client needs.
59:46I don't care.
59:47They don't care about no peers.
59:48They paid hundreds and hundreds of dollars,
59:51probably a thousand dollars for a service.
59:53They just want what you promote on your page.
59:57The closest thing to it.
59:59So let's actually touch on that.
1:00:01Like, I mean, especially at weddings,
1:00:04it may take me a while,
1:00:05but like for clients that you may do an event or a wedding
1:00:10and they text you like either the same day
1:00:13or the next day,
1:00:14can I have some pictures a little bit?
1:00:15Like for people that don't know,
1:00:18how long is usually the process
1:00:19of editing and researching?
1:00:21Okay, events take me one to three days.
1:00:24Usually I can turn on an event in one day.
1:00:26Like it just depends.
1:00:27So like events is easy because we're doing global edits
1:00:32and plus usually what I'm shooting on the camera
1:00:35is kind of close to what I'm giving the client.
1:00:37So I'm dialing in numbers so precise
1:00:40to where I don't have to do so much back end.
1:00:44I'm just doing bumping clarity up.
1:00:46I got presets already set up for me
1:00:48like in my Capture One
1:00:50to where it's like I don't get those out quick.
1:00:54So events, but it depends on the event.
1:00:57I had a couple of events.
1:00:59I had galas that I had to do.
1:01:01I had one at the MOCA
1:01:02then I had one for Cleveland Payhouse gala
1:01:06like last weekend to where something, man,
1:01:10that one I took like,
1:01:12I gave them like a thousand pictures at the gala
1:01:15because this was like just one of the top events
1:01:19I ever did.
1:01:21So it was like, I wanted to make sure that that one,
1:01:24which I make sure all of them is,
1:01:25but like the categorizing everything.
1:01:27So I could do like a lounge or a club
1:01:29or something like that.
1:01:31Something quick, like an hour if I'm there for an hour,
1:01:33nah, I knock that stuff off quick, boom, boom,
1:01:35send it to them.
1:01:37Not that saying I'm not taking the same type,
1:01:40but it's like, I know it to the T
1:01:42on how to retouch it, send it to them.
1:01:45Process it.
1:01:45Like, yeah, but if I'm taking like those galas
1:01:48and I'm there for five and a half hours,
1:01:50oh yeah, you about to get some,
1:01:52I'm getting this and then this is gonna be categorized,
1:01:56this time, this place, this part of the event,
1:01:58this, this, the performance, the speakers, all of that.
1:02:01So that'd be one thing, but it, it don't take long.
1:02:06Weddings, that's another thing.
1:02:07I tell people 30 days, 30 days, 30 days on weddings,
1:02:11because like sometimes I had to sit there
1:02:14and everything got to be clear.
1:02:16It may take me a day and a half to do a wedding
1:02:18or a day to do a wedding,
1:02:21but everything had to be clear
1:02:23because I got to bust these weddings down.
1:02:24You know what I'm saying?
1:02:25Like weddings is for real.
1:02:28And plus like software has advanced so much.
1:02:34So this is one thing, if I could ever tell anybody,
1:02:36if you could bookmark this too,
1:02:39it's a software that I told a lot of my capadres about.
1:02:43And this will save you all's life
1:02:45when it comes to retouching.
1:02:47It's called EVOTO, E-V-O-T-O.
1:02:51Take that with you, love it.
1:02:53Y'all will appreciate that.
1:02:55Y'all will probably pay my subscriptions
1:02:58or give me more credits for EVOTO if you haven't done it.
1:03:01EVOTO is, it's such, it's the dopest thing.
1:03:05It allows you not to go to Photoshop.
1:03:08So like the software that I use is Captra One,
1:03:12and I use Captra One and Infinity Photo,
1:03:15but I'll use Captra One, EVOTO,
1:03:20Infinity Photo, Photoshop, like within those three, four.
1:03:25But with Captra One is, Captra One is Lightroom,
1:03:28but it's a different software, raw software.
1:03:31And then EVOTO would be, I would say like this,
1:03:34for the people who use Lightroom and Photoshop,
1:03:37you would use Lightroom to bring it in
1:03:39for color grading, and then you will take it to EVOTO.
1:03:42Then you will take it to Photoshop
1:03:44for any fine tuning.
1:03:46But a lot of times now, you would go
1:03:48from Lightroom to EVOTO.
1:03:50It wouldn't even hit Photoshop because of what EVOTO does.
1:03:53It does skin retouching.
1:03:56It cleans the backdrop out.
1:03:58It clean glare out the glass, fray hairs.
1:04:02It cleans up everything for you.
1:04:04It dodge and burns, and you scale it like Lightroom,
1:04:08but everything is on a credit base.
1:04:10So you may spend like $200 for 1,200 credits,
1:04:14but one credit is for one picture.
1:04:16So if you're giving people packages,
1:04:18like well, all right, I'm charging,
1:04:21let's say 300 for five edits.
1:04:23Guess what?
1:04:24Five edits, you know what I'm saying?
1:04:26Like that's nothing.
1:04:28Like EVOTO would eat up all of that type of stuff,
1:04:31and it batches files.
1:04:32So if I had to do 20 edits,
1:04:35whatever I did to that one edit,
1:04:37as far as cleaning the face, all of that stuff,
1:04:39I could batch that over 20 files.
1:04:42So it's like, you could be holding your hands like this,
1:04:44and it'll create the whole entire edit for you still.
1:04:49It's a, and I'm anti-AI,
1:04:51but that program right there,
1:04:54it'd have made so much bread off of that.
1:04:56Just even when it comes to corporate hair shots
1:04:58or school shots, EVOTO, top notch.
1:05:02So please tap into that.
1:05:05That is the best.
1:05:07It preserved, it hid the backdrops for you.
1:05:10Preserves the shadows.
1:05:12So it cleaned up the whole backdrop for you.
1:05:13You know how our backdrops, the white backdrops,
1:05:16clean up the backdrops and preserve the backdrop for you.
1:05:20So it is, man, come on, man.
1:05:22I was saying them,
1:05:23because I'm always at different masterminds,
1:05:27conferences out the city.
1:05:30Doze is one of the vendors.
1:05:31I didn't get a chance to check them out,
1:05:32but I'm familiar with them.
1:05:34And then also Imagine.
1:05:36I keep hearing about Imagine AI.
1:05:38That's what I first heard before.
1:05:39I'm gonna check it out though.
1:05:40I'm gonna check it out.
1:05:41I wanna upgrade my equipment first
1:05:43before I go in and add more stuff into it.
1:05:47Because my equipment is,
1:05:49the software is so advanced
1:05:51that you don't have to have crazy advanced equipment.
1:05:55So I'm running with Apple M1,
1:05:57an M1, my Apple Mini M1.
1:06:00So it's handling everything,
1:06:01but I'm starting to feel like,
1:06:04and that's where I had to learn,
1:06:06because when I first started out editing,
1:06:08I wasn't editing on a computer.
1:06:09I was editing on an iPad Pro.
1:06:11So that's why I was dealing with Affinity Photo,
1:06:13because it was the most advanced editing software
1:06:16for photographers.
1:06:18So that's why I was like,
1:06:20I've never been a Photoshop person.
1:06:23Do you feel like it's better than Lightroom Mobile?
1:06:26Oh, Capture One is by far.
1:06:28Capture, but not Affinity?
1:06:29Well, Affinity is better,
1:06:31because Affinity is like Photoshop.
1:06:34It's more Capture One and Lightroom is for raw editing.
1:06:38So I could batch hundreds and hundreds of files
1:06:41in Capture One and Lightroom.
1:06:44But with Capture One,
1:06:45I could shoot tethered through Capture One
1:06:48on the iPad on what's the name.
1:06:51So Capture One is great for how those files
1:06:54come through raw,
1:06:55and you got layers you could play with layers,
1:06:58and the tethering.
1:07:00The tethering,
1:07:02if you don't use Capture One for nothing else,
1:07:03you're gonna use it just to tether through, period.
1:07:06So it moves lightning quick on you.
1:07:08So it's like, man, I can take my iPad Pro
1:07:12and shoot Capture One and tether and shoot live
1:07:16and tether live and it,
1:07:18man, I ain't gonna get me started with Capture One.
1:07:21That's what I tell people.
1:07:22I was like, look, I know y'all like,
1:07:25this is how if you have it,
1:07:27because Capture One was with this company
1:07:28called Phase One,
1:07:29then they switched it to Capture One.
1:07:31So if I ever had to compare Capture One and Lightroom,
1:07:35like I think my brother said it best.
1:07:36He was like, Lightroom felt like
1:07:40a computer engineer made Lightroom.
1:07:44Capture One felt like a photographer made Capture One.
1:07:49You know what I'm saying?
1:07:51They catered to the photographer on Capture One.
1:07:55They knew the tweaks,
1:07:56everything that a photographer needed
1:07:59in a raw software editing program.
1:08:03And that's where Capture One come in.
1:08:05It just, man, it's just,
1:08:07when you start playing with that clarity in the model,
1:08:09it's just, it's like those little things
1:08:12just make it so live.
1:08:14So it's dope.
1:08:16I do have a question I have been asked
1:08:19and, you know, creative and artists,
1:08:23if your creative process were a weather forecast,
1:08:28how would you describe it?
1:08:31Like for me, I would say mine is like
1:08:33that light drizzle rain on a warm sunny day.
1:08:38Going back to that cool and warm,
1:08:40it's like a blue balance, you know?
1:08:42Cause we know that too much heat, you know,
1:08:43be sweating, but like the rain kind of cools it off,
1:08:46but this is very light and subtle where it's refreshing.
1:08:49And then golden hour, golden hour in the morning.
1:08:52Or like in the early morning.
1:08:54Like I love, like, I shoot Nikon.
1:08:59So Nikon is, the way they render colors, man.
1:09:04Cause it's like more of like a outdoor camera anyway.
1:09:08It's more for like landscaping and stuff like that.
1:09:10But I mean, we use it for portrait working events
1:09:13and all of that, but it's truly how like it renders
1:09:19with the colors with your reds, your blues,
1:09:21your greens, like it's just a beautiful,
1:09:26it's just beautiful.
1:09:27So like when I, my style of photography
1:09:31is more like rich colors.
1:09:35You know, like I love my black and whites,
1:09:38but like I love like, I don't know,
1:09:42like a dark rich tone.
1:09:45Like I love playing with shadows.
1:09:48I love like low key editorial shots.
1:09:53So like, I would say, I don't know,
1:09:55it had to be maybe more so in the night, nighttime maybe.
1:10:00Like I would go, if it was weather time,
1:10:03it would be like, I don't know,
1:10:05something that night, something like a,
1:10:09what's the green stuff that'd be in the sky?
1:10:11The Northern Lights or something like that.
1:10:14Ooh, okay, that's different.
1:10:15Yeah, it would probably be in that type of phenomenon.
1:10:20And that's, yeah, that's usually where I go for, man.
1:10:23Like my, like when I shoot,
1:10:26it's the thing that when I do when I shoot
1:10:28and I was thinking of this,
1:10:29I was like, I don't shoot the same.
1:10:32I don't have the same hookup
1:10:33every single time I shoot.
1:10:35I got like maybe six different modifiers I roll with
1:10:41and none of my shoots is the same.
1:10:43Like I don't place the lights every single,
1:10:47like I know different type of setups,
1:10:52but a lot of times, like man, they be different.
1:10:55Like I'll see a person that I'm like,
1:10:57I'm not gonna do this the same way.
1:10:59I'm gonna do this this way.
1:11:01So a lot of times it's like, man,
1:11:02I'm changing up so much stuff when I'm shooting.
1:11:05Like, and that's what helps me with photography.
1:11:09Like, because all it is is just crafting light.
1:11:12Photography means to paint with light.
1:11:14So I'm not about to paint the same exact way
1:11:17every time I see a client.
1:11:20Like certain things pull me differently.
1:11:23Like, I don't know.
1:11:24I'll figure out so much stuff
1:11:25or I'll see something like right when I'm shooting,
1:11:27I'm like, oh no, we gonna switch this.
1:11:29We gonna do this.
1:11:30And then that's where it's like,
1:11:31I get a lot of people who always ask me,
1:11:33man, how do you do that with the light?
1:11:35How do you do that?
1:11:36What are you doing?
1:11:37Like what's your light?
1:11:38And I'm always here to show people,
1:11:41but that's the next phase of me.
1:11:42Like I wanna do like kind of like a,
1:11:44I hate to call it master class.
1:11:46I'm not a master, but just,
1:11:48I wanna show people my perspective
1:11:49on how I know how to craft light.
1:11:52Yeah, we gonna make it happen.
1:11:52I got some stuff in the works too, so.
1:11:54My dog.
1:11:55Yeah, we.
1:11:57Yeah.
1:11:58All about it.
1:11:59Yeah.
1:12:00But speaking of, you know, more about adjusting.
1:12:03So let's kind of compare like your business
1:12:05and the personal.
1:12:06Was there a creative project
1:12:08that was a commercial failure, but a personal triumph?
1:12:14Commercial tre, commercial, commercial.
1:12:18Failure.
1:12:18Failure, but a.
1:12:20Personal triumph.
1:12:23Oh, did I do something that was.
1:12:26Oh, I'ma tell you this.
1:12:30And this was a while ago too.
1:12:33And you, we gotta go through these things.
1:12:35That's right.
1:12:36The journey.
1:12:37And I'ma, oh, listen.
1:12:39One of my biggest teachers was the clubs.
1:12:43And if people don't understand this, look.
1:12:44I'ma tell you this.
1:12:45That low light's been a low light.
1:12:46This, no, it ain't just the low light.
1:12:49Uh-oh.
1:12:49The clubs is the most chaotic situation
1:12:52you could ever shoot in.
1:12:54So if you could ever shoot in a club,
1:12:57effectively, marketably, and great,
1:13:00you damn near could shoot in any situation.
1:13:05And I remember it was this one time.
1:13:07And I'm not the type of person,
1:13:09I don't be crashing out or getting to my emotions
1:13:12about certain stuff.
1:13:13But this time, it just really, I didn't know.
1:13:16Like when you, and this is how you,
1:13:19this is how you know you're cold at photography.
1:13:23And this was in my novice years.
1:13:26And I'm still novice,
1:13:27but this was truly in my beginning years.
1:13:29This might've happened in 2019 before the pandemic.
1:13:33I was at Medusa.
1:13:34And for whatever our reason, my speed light wouldn't work.
1:13:38And I'm in Medusa, and it's dark,
1:13:41and they looking for another photographer
1:13:43to shoot in clubs.
1:13:45And I did good, I did decent the first time,
1:13:48but they wanted me to come back out to do some more.
1:13:51And I'm like trying to appease everybody,
1:13:54all of that type of stuff.
1:13:55I'm sorry, I can't.
1:13:57My speed light, it's the source of my light.
1:14:00I'm like, aw.
1:14:02I left the club.
1:14:04I'm like, man, I can't do this, man.
1:14:06And they was like, man, where you go?
1:14:07You know, like, man, we need you, bro.
1:14:11I'm like, man, my light ain't registered
1:14:14into my camera, bro.
1:14:15Like, I can't do nothing, man.
1:14:17And I like, and I went on the gram.
1:14:20I put up a post, man, I'm sorry, man.
1:14:22This got me crushed, blah, blah, blah, blah.
1:14:24Stephen Midget hit me up in the DM.
1:14:26He was just like on some like brick brother,
1:14:30little brother type vibe.
1:14:31Like on some, just schooling me.
1:14:35Like, bro, you just get you something else.
1:14:37You get you one of these little light ones
1:14:39or you up your ice hole.
1:14:40At the end of the day,
1:14:41remember you still working for a client.
1:14:43They gotta get something.
1:14:44Whether it's bad or good, man, you can make it work.
1:14:48You just gotta shoot.
1:14:49You know what I'm saying?
1:14:51And I got the little thing that he said
1:14:54was like this little light thing
1:14:55that you put on your camera just in case
1:14:57if you just need light or whatnot.
1:14:59And I made sure that I was well prepared.
1:15:04So like any time, that was a personal triumph
1:15:11because it reshifted like me serving the client correctly.
1:15:19Like knowing what I know now,
1:15:20I would have never, that night,
1:15:21I would have never left the client.
1:15:23You know, I would have stayed in
1:15:24and just if I would have sent them all pictures
1:15:27that was just high ice hole,
1:15:28I would have sent them high.
1:15:30Or I would have did some creative stuff now that I know.
1:15:34But for the most part, that was, to me,
1:15:36it was a personal triumph talking to him about that
1:15:39because it just reshifted.
1:15:41It was like, man, get out of your feelings, man.
1:15:43Bro, just take care of business.
1:15:44You know what I'm saying?
1:15:46So like that was something that helped me.
1:15:48But when it comes to photography or anything,
1:15:53I'm gonna tell you,
1:15:55that was the very last time that ever happened to me
1:15:57when it comes to leaving.
1:16:02Like that was the only time that ever happened
1:16:04because now it's like, man,
1:16:07you ain't a dope photographer till something go wrong.
1:16:13Man, it's been plenty of times where,
1:16:14man, I forgot a trigger
1:16:16where I only had to work with my speed light
1:16:20or I had to do something impromptu
1:16:22where I only had a little bit of equipment
1:16:24and I had to make it work.
1:16:25And I had to make it work at a high level
1:16:27to where it's like, man,
1:16:30everything that you was taught gonna kick in.
1:16:33It's gonna kick in because you get this anxiety
1:16:36of like failing to where it's like,
1:16:39you gotta, all right, let's get it together now.
1:16:42All right, all right, what am I gonna use?
1:16:43Okay, I ain't got this, oh, okay.
1:16:46Oh, it's still light outside,
1:16:47I'm gonna put them next to these big windows
1:16:48and let that soft light come in
1:16:50and get the shots that I need and kill them.
1:16:53And now they love it.
1:16:55Boom, when I knew I was gonna not,
1:16:57when I knew I wasn't gonna kill this,
1:16:59I gotta figure out any and every type of way
1:17:00to make a soft box out of nothing
1:17:04and finagle these type of shots.
1:17:07Man, once it got to that point,
1:17:08I don't care what situation I'm in.
1:17:10The only thing I ever feel like,
1:17:13if somebody flew me out and I forgot my batteries,
1:17:16let's knock on some wood.
1:17:17You know what I'm saying?
1:17:18Like somebody flew me out and I forgot my batteries
1:17:20and I gotta shoot right down in there.
1:17:22Like, or I forgot memory cards or something,
1:17:24I did that plenty of times where I had to turn around.
1:17:27Man, I luckily sometimes have two,
1:17:30I'd be like, oh, are y'all ready?
1:17:33Yeah, but it make you double check your stuff now though.
1:17:37You know what I'm saying?
1:17:38So like, man, listen, yeah.
1:17:40Oh my goodness.
1:17:41Yeah, you know, that's treacherous, man.
1:17:44But that's the importance of backups, you know?
1:17:46Backups to everything, backup batteries,
1:17:48backup SD. And experience.
1:17:49And experience, my dad was just telling me,
1:17:51he was like, man, I'm telling you, man,
1:17:52nothing teach you like experience.
1:17:53So it's like, as much as the advice I can give people,
1:17:58man, experience is gonna be your best teacher, man.
1:18:00Cause you know, if you passionate about something,
1:18:03you're not so quick to give up,
1:18:04you know you're not gonna do this again.
1:18:06Or you're gonna try your best, dude.
1:18:08It's gonna be in your mind to, hey, yeah, so.
1:18:12Yeah, like going back to what you said earlier,
1:18:14having that confidence, like, you know,
1:18:16a lot of people are like younger shooters, you know,
1:18:19under me that I kind of mentee or mentor, you know,
1:18:23my mentees, you know, always invoke that confidence.
1:18:25I'm like, just imagine, you know, we on the shoot
1:18:29and I'm not even near, just, just do your best.
1:18:32I mean, cause I mean, most of the time
1:18:34we're in the heat of the moment, you know,
1:18:35I'm hyper focused, I can't help you sometimes.
1:18:39So you just do your best.
1:18:41I'll be there to back you up when I can,
1:18:43but just do your best.
1:18:44Yeah. So, you know, having those,
1:18:46I mean, there's things that happen to me on shoots
1:18:49where I'll be like, what the?
1:18:51Man.
1:18:52And it's just like, the client would never know.
1:18:54I'm like, hey, how you doing?
1:18:55Yeah, they never know.
1:18:56Never know. Man, like them clients
1:18:58don't know nothing.
1:18:59You have to keep your cool and confident.
1:19:01Yeah, cause if they see you break, man.
1:19:04Right. Especially on wedding.
1:19:06Oh, man, I remember the first wedding I had,
1:19:09the first wedding I had, 26 people.
1:19:12It was 26 people and the wedding started at two.
1:19:17The bride didn't get to the house until two.
1:19:19The lights in the church was out and it was raining.
1:19:26We had to have the service outside in the rain.
1:19:3126 people.
1:19:3426 people, man.
1:19:41I did it, I knocked it out, that was cool.
1:19:45Like weddings, I like weddings.
1:19:46Weddings is dope.
1:19:47I'm about to start promoting more weddings.
1:19:48Cause most people don't see me promoting weddings,
1:19:51but I do a lot of weddings though.
1:19:53Yeah, like 50 was my first portrait for the shoot.
1:19:57My first wedding was $800.
1:20:00What I charged that, no, no.
1:20:02Yeah, my first wedding was $600.
1:20:03I had a team, I paid a team, you know.
1:20:06I had a team of two.
1:20:09And yeah, after doing all that and spending time editing,
1:20:12that first wedding took me almost three months to edit.
1:20:15Yeah, yeah.
1:20:17Cause you doing your best to appease this client.
1:20:21Like every, you probably just, man,
1:20:25when I be editing, man, I'm not, no,
1:20:28I'm not knocking pimples off your whole body
1:20:31on every single client.
1:20:33Right, right.
1:20:34You know what I'm saying?
1:20:35I'm giving you a thousand,
1:20:37like at first I used to give like,
1:20:39like close to 2,000 shots on weddings.
1:20:41Not doing it no more.
1:20:42Like I'm looking at people's packages now.
1:20:46It's like they giving like around like
1:20:49between 700 and 900 shots.
1:20:51And once I start seeing that, I'm like,
1:20:53man, that makes so much sense.
1:20:55Like a lot of this stuff is overkill.
1:20:56I'm shooting the same thing four or five times.
1:21:00Even if they are four or five good shots,
1:21:02like man, I'm here to present you a story.
1:21:05That's right, yeah.
1:21:06You know, so it's like I'm,
1:21:08nobody's looking at 2,000 shots.
1:21:11You know what I'm saying?
1:21:12Like. We are.
1:21:13We are. We are.
1:21:15But no, like there's so much overkill with it
1:21:19to where it's just like here.
1:21:20I just want to give you this,
1:21:23but they're going to be like this is going to make sense.
1:21:29You know, so it's like once I start kind of scaling down
1:21:33like that, because think about it,
1:21:35when you do a wedding book,
1:21:36it's not 900 shots in a wedding book, right?
1:21:39But the story of the whole wedding is in a wedding book.
1:21:42So you might get 40 to 60 shots in that wedding book.
1:21:45You know what I'm saying?
1:21:46But the wedding book looked great
1:21:48because everything felt so good.
1:21:50And that, yeah, that's something I had to learn.
1:21:55Almost 3,000 collective.
1:21:57We like, yeah, yeah, it's overkill.
1:22:00It's overkill for 800.
1:22:02Yeah, for 800.
1:22:04And I like from the time I had to put in to that wedding
1:22:07and even gave him a free wedding book.
1:22:10But knowing what I know now at the pan style,
1:22:14I came out of pocket.
1:22:15Yeah, you did. You did.
1:22:16But that's an investment for my future.
1:22:18Yeah, absolutely.
1:22:19So you needed to you.
1:22:21But we got to go through.
1:22:22It's all growing pains.
1:22:24You got to go through that stuff.
1:22:26Like, I didn't went through, so I go through stuff now.
1:22:28But I know the amount of stuff I'm willing to go through
1:22:33and what I'm not willing to go through.
1:22:34It is so easy for me to say no now.
1:22:36I don't care, even if I need it,
1:22:39I'm not saying yes to certain things.
1:22:42Like, no, I'm not doing that.
1:22:43I'm not doing that.
1:22:45But it's like, no, I'm not, no.
1:22:47Because it's too much to come with those yeses.
1:22:52Because if I say yes to you for this situation,
1:22:56you got me four on pennies on the dollar
1:23:08because most people don't value what we do for real.
1:23:11That's true.
1:23:11You know what I'm saying?
1:23:12They don't know the real value of it
1:23:13because I think to what we do,
1:23:15we all under charging for real, for real.
1:23:17If we really wanted to open the market up
1:23:19and band together and just be a union for real, for real
1:23:23like where the price ain't never going under this,
1:23:28man, it's a luxury expense.
1:23:30You know what I'm saying?
1:23:31So we have to look at the market of Cleveland
1:23:33and be like, okay, boom.
1:23:36That's what I had to do
1:23:37when I had to think about the money end of it.
1:23:39I had to look at Cleveland market,
1:23:42like, okay, I wanna up it to this,
1:23:45but I also have to be careful
1:23:47because I still want clients.
1:23:51So I had to find that corporate price
1:23:54and that customer price.
1:23:57So I had one where I had corporate price
1:23:59all the way up here,
1:24:00but these people paying for that,
1:24:05some corporates, you can't even charge low
1:24:08what you think you would
1:24:09because they wouldn't take you serious.
1:24:11So you have to charge up here
1:24:13because they got the budget
1:24:14and they gotta spend it for this.
1:24:18So, hey, this is why I charge you all for this.
1:24:20I know what y'all using this all for.
1:24:22So guess what?
1:24:23This is price.
1:24:26But I had to look at it other way
1:24:28to where it's like everybody ain't got that budget
1:24:30and I can't figure out if they do or they don't.
1:24:33So let me hire my prices up,
1:24:35but keep it a little lower so I can get everybody.
1:24:38So.
1:24:38I kinda wanna speak on that.
1:24:41Like, how do you price for profit
1:24:43but still be competitive?
1:24:46Once I started seeing everybody prices,
1:24:49I started looking at it.
1:24:50I needed to find out something
1:24:52that was comfortable for Ned
1:24:54to where it's like, I feel like,
1:24:57cause it got to a point where I was doing so much
1:24:59and I wasn't fulfilled with what I was doing.
1:25:02Cause I'm like, man, this is here doing a lot for you
1:25:06and I'm so nice.
1:25:07I'll just say yes to anything.
1:25:10No, I'm not doing that.
1:25:11You're going to either pay this
1:25:13or you're not gonna pay this.
1:25:15So when I found that out,
1:25:17I was like, oh, okay, this is cool for me.
1:25:19I was scared to say 354 photo shoot.
1:25:22Like, no, I was like, this might be too much
1:25:27or you probably can't afford this
1:25:28or I'm gonna make this comfortable for you.
1:25:32I'm gonna figure it out for you.
1:25:35This all, whether they spent 200 or 350
1:25:37or 500 is a luxury expense.
1:25:39Nobody had to take cell phones so good.
1:25:42Now, anybody can find good lighting
1:25:43and just take a good picture of their family
1:25:45and post it up.
1:25:46You could get a poster or a canvas of 24 by 36
1:25:51off of a cell phone image now.
1:25:53So you don't technically need a photographer
1:25:55but they ain't photographers.
1:25:58So it's like, man, we crafting light.
1:26:00We doing things.
1:26:01We are specialists at what we do.
1:26:03We not taking, we ain't taking pictures.
1:26:09We creating moments.
1:26:11So it's like, those is timeless.
1:26:13So like now I approach it like,
1:26:15I don't even want a cell phone
1:26:16to even be able to take the capabilities
1:26:19of what I'm doing.
1:26:20So it's like, mine's had to be a certain type of way.
1:26:23So, because this is catching up to us so fast.
1:26:26So it's like, I got to a point, man,
1:26:29where it was just like, man,
1:26:30this is what I'm comfortable with.
1:26:32This is what, I had to speak it.
1:26:34Like I jumped my event prices up to,
1:26:37what was it, 275 an hour with a two hour minimum.
1:26:40And then there's people who's like,
1:26:41well, I just need you for one hour.
1:26:42Then it's 350.
1:26:43You see what I'm saying?
1:26:45So it was like, once I got that in my mind
1:26:47and that's what I was comfortable with,
1:26:49that's where I'm at right now.
1:26:51Until I'm somewhere else.
1:26:53You know what I'm saying?
1:26:53Now there might be times where,
1:26:56blah, blah, blah, blah,
1:26:56I may do something and I might be charging this.
1:27:00Blah, blah, blah, blah.
1:27:01So everything I ain't gonna say,
1:27:02that's what I stand on.
1:27:04What I feel like doing is different.
1:27:06You know what I'm saying?
1:27:07So it's like, and I think people be,
1:27:11I don't want people to get that confused.
1:27:13It's like, man, I charge what I want to charge.
1:27:15Like you don't have to deal with me.
1:27:17You know what I'm saying?
1:27:18So, but I charge accordingly,
1:27:20but my base price is my base price.
1:27:22Now you might catch me while I'm feeling happy today,
1:27:24you know, just love people.
1:27:26You know what I'm saying?
1:27:27So we're here, take it.
1:27:30This is a blessing, God bless you.
1:27:31Because God has truly blessed me in every way.
1:27:34So like, man, I got a big heart to do certain things,
1:27:37but man, I stand on that.
1:27:39I stand on who I am because you don't,
1:27:43I give people the options, you know?
1:27:45Like, and I'm not a greedy person when it comes to money.
1:27:49Like I had to do a consultation with somebody
1:27:53on a wedding joint, my bad, man.
1:27:56This cage right here.
1:27:57I had to do a consultation with somebody
1:27:59on a wedding joint and they had to do,
1:28:02they wanted me right then.
1:28:04They was like, I'm not going to go to the next person.
1:28:06But I'm like, man, that's my dog, go to her.
1:28:09Go get your consultation with her.
1:28:10Cause she might have the package
1:28:11that you actually need for real.
1:28:14Like we're coming with everything with it
1:28:16and she's a great photographer.
1:28:17So weigh out your options all the way.
1:28:19Yeah, do I want that hat?
1:28:21Cause now weddings, I asked for half.
1:28:24So I was like, 14, 50, you know?
1:28:28But man, I just believe what's right is right
1:28:30and what's wrong is wrong.
1:28:31So it's like, I'm never going to go against what's right
1:28:33because that's going to eat away at me.
1:28:35Go and do your due diligence with your people.
1:28:38And if you want to come back to me,
1:28:40I'm right here, you know?
1:28:42So that's how I be feeling about things.
1:28:44That's right, man.
1:28:48Wealth and knowledge, man, great conversation.
1:28:51Definitely appreciate you, right?
1:28:53Man, cause I'm thinking like, man,
1:28:58it's not being alone in this journey
1:29:00and kind of, you know,
1:29:02hearing like the same experiences and stories,
1:29:05you know, that I had to go through.
1:29:07So it's always good, man.
1:29:09Like first photographer that I interviewed for real.
1:29:12Oh, this is awesome.
1:29:13It's actually my first male interview
1:29:16since I've been doing interviews.
1:29:17Hey, this is dope, man.
1:29:19That's what I'm saying, man.
1:29:22I currently charge for event photography, 250 hours.
1:29:26Dope, yeah.
1:29:27I kind of had, you know, like day rates
1:29:30or half day rates and then also day rates
1:29:32where you kind of, you know, get a discount,
1:29:36but you know what I'm saying?
1:29:37Like people always try to,
1:29:39well, kind of get it, you know?
1:29:43Or like even like a wedding,
1:29:44like your price is more than a venue,
1:29:48but also look at the venue.
1:29:50Yeah, look at the venue that they at.
1:29:53So I'm like, okay, it makes sense.
1:29:55But this is the lowest I could go for this hour.
1:29:58You know, I still got pay staff.
1:30:00I even, you know, I told them,
1:30:02I'm like working with two people.
1:30:04You know, they're cutting back on price.
1:30:06You know, I can only do a couple hours now
1:30:11or you're like, man, I'm still down,
1:30:13whatever you need.
1:30:14So it's like having that team and people,
1:30:18like they're both mentees.
1:30:19So, you know, they're still learning as well,
1:30:22but they're good and I trust them.
1:30:24That's what I do.
1:30:26And, you know, so I'm very thankful for, you know,
1:30:30my network, people that trust in me
1:30:32to, you know, do their events
1:30:34or even if they need, you know, advice.
1:30:38I will tell you this,
1:30:39when it comes to negotiating your prices
1:30:42for wedding photography, don't.
1:30:46The DJ music is gonna be played.
1:30:48That's music over.
1:30:50The cake got eaten.
1:30:52The venue, we already kicked it
1:30:54to where we can kick it.
1:30:55We can't feel that kick it no more.
1:30:58The dress is already worn.
1:31:00The tuxedos is already worn.
1:31:03Them pictures is forever.
1:31:06You know what I'm saying?
1:31:07Your job is truly the most important job
1:31:10out of everybody there
1:31:11because they count on these memories
1:31:14for the rest of their life.
1:31:16That's true.
1:31:17You know what I'm saying?
1:31:18It's not like a videography
1:31:19and I'm not knocking videographers,
1:31:21but a videographer is five minutes.
1:31:25These pictures, they could take each one
1:31:27of these pictures.
1:31:28Somebody in that wedding is gonna pass away.
1:31:31You know what I'm saying?
1:31:31These is memories.
1:31:32That's why we take the pictures of the family.
1:31:34We take all of these type of pictures.
1:31:36Man, those, your wedding,
1:31:38the job of the wedding photographer
1:31:40is the most important job at the wedding
1:31:43because we were responsible for forever.
1:31:47So you have to be firming your pricing.
1:31:51So you can't let up on individuals
1:31:55or you can't let up on your business
1:31:57because that's important, man.
1:32:00Just don't do it
1:32:01because we got too much responsibility
1:32:05within that particular event.
1:32:08That's true and that's amazing.
1:32:11I appreciate you for coming out and doing this.
1:32:14My pleasure, bro.
1:32:15I know you just came from a shoot,
1:32:18you know, getting it in.
1:32:20Yeah, that's what we do, man.
1:32:22That's right.
1:32:24And last question,
1:32:25I wanna close it out for all my business owners
1:32:27and entrepreneurs that are starting their journey.
1:32:30What advice would you give them
1:32:32for a new entrepreneur starting out?
1:32:35The main advice I would give you,
1:32:38first, put everything to God.
1:32:42Give everything to God first.
1:32:44I can't move, I can't do none of this stuff
1:32:48if God was not involved in this.
1:32:51Like I would find another way to try to think of it,
1:32:55but it's truly because I prayed on this
1:32:56and I talked to God and asked him for this first.
1:32:59That was the number one thing.
1:33:00So I would say that's the first and foremost.
1:33:02The second thing I would say is always have fun.
1:33:09If you chasing money, it's not gonna be fun.
1:33:15The money is gonna come.
1:33:17Just keep constantly building your craft and having fun.
1:33:22And if you keep doing that
1:33:25and building your craft and having fun,
1:33:27man, you'll be so prosperous no matter what.
1:33:32And it might not even be the money
1:33:33that make you prosperous.
1:33:34It's just like the joy of people
1:33:37helping people, being an asset to people.
1:33:41Like that is truly like my heart's passion.
1:33:45If I wasn't doing this, I would probably be a chef.
1:33:48I just wanted to do something.
1:33:49I jumped into photography mainly because I wanted to do,
1:33:54I wanted to have a million conversations
1:33:56with a million people.
1:33:58And however I could have that, that's what I wanted.
1:34:01So if this was an easy way for me to talk to people
1:34:04and to find out something unique about people,
1:34:08this was the career choice that was for me.
1:34:10So I praise God that I had this opportunity
1:34:15to be who I am at this point and still grow.
1:34:18So just keep constantly being that student
1:34:21and please keep God first and you'll be all right.
1:34:28Appreciate you, thank you.
1:34:29My dog, man, I appreciate you, man.
1:34:31Yes, I'm just gonna close it out
1:34:33with shouting out my business, Alienize Photos Media.
1:34:38For more information, check out alienizephotos.com.
1:34:43Check out some of my gallery work
1:34:46or if you wanna book me or even chat on the phone.
1:34:50I do do small business coaching for new entrepreneurs
1:34:53or if you wanna have an ideation session,
1:34:56bounce ideas off each other on a higher level.
1:35:00And I definitely wanna be of gratitude
1:35:04and appreciation to my media partners.
1:35:07I'm here at LaunchArts, where we're recording,
1:35:10LaunchArts Media and then also the Pull Up Experience
1:35:13where we also interview a lot of entrepreneurs
1:35:15around the city of Cleveland, but we've been traveling
1:35:19so we're now global, well national,
1:35:21I ain't gonna say global yet, national.
1:35:24So again, this is photographer Jackson, Steve Jackson
1:35:27or most people know me as Alien
1:35:30and I have PhotoCred, Ned, my dog.
1:35:34Please tap in, tap in, man, we appreciate you.
1:35:38And then right before we go,
1:35:39where can the people find you?
1:35:41I shoot over at, I'll give you my Instagram handle,
1:35:45it's PhotoCred, Ned, P-H-O-T-O-C-R-E-D-N-E-D.
1:35:50That's my Instagram and I shoot over
1:35:54at LaunchArts Content Studio.
1:35:56So that's where my studio is currently at.
1:35:58That's over on 1547 St. Clair Avenue, 4414.
1:36:05And yeah, that's where I'm at.
1:36:07So, but I'm always all around.
1:36:09So you will find me probably outside somewhere
1:36:12at these WaitOval events and all of that taking sides
1:36:16or having a drink with you all.
1:36:18So, you know, hey, that's right.
1:36:20And then also I wanna just pitch this,
1:36:23Evoto, if you're listening, anybody from Evoto?
1:36:25Get with my man for the affiliate link.
1:36:28He need an affiliate link.
1:36:30Thank you, please do,
1:36:31because I gotta re-up all them credits.
1:36:33Hey, man, we're gonna make it happen.
1:36:36Again, for everybody that's tuning in,
1:36:39we are signing out.
1:36:40Peace. Peace.