Season 2 · Episode 9

Nicole D. Miller - NDMiller Publishing

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0:01From bookkeeper to book writer, to book launcher,
0:05to book publisher, my sister, my dear friend,
0:09is Nicole D. Miller.
0:12I'm talking six-time self-published author,
0:17blogger, speaker, creator of Girl Talk,
0:20and also the Indie Author Expo,
0:23which is coming up in June, June 20th.
0:27So stay tuned for that.
0:30So, let's get into it.
0:32How did you get started with book writing?
0:36Like, bookkeeping is more structured,
0:40it's true to form and solid,
0:42but I think with writing, and fictional writing at that,
0:46as you write novels,
0:48it's a lot more distortion, creativity,
0:52a lot of freeform.
0:54So how did you come from structure
0:55with bookkeeping to book writing?
0:59It's interesting, Alien, because,
1:01am I calling you Alien or Steven?
1:05Everybody knows me as book.
1:08It's interesting, Alien, because I started blogging
1:12back in the day, when I was hot,
1:15and never saw myself as a real writer
1:17or an official writer.
1:19Blogging was my gateway into being a creative
1:23and a literary creative at that.
1:26And I had written one particular blog,
1:28How to Overcome Heartbreak,
1:30Recovering from Misguided Love.
1:33And I felt spiritually led, like,
1:35this is the name of my first book.
1:37I feel like that's what God said.
1:39And so I wrote that book and published it in 2014,
1:43but again, never saw myself as a writer,
1:46was still working in finance,
1:48had my MBA in accounting.
1:51So, being a creative was something
1:52that was off the grid for me.
1:54It was something that was a hobby,
1:57or it was something that was on the side.
1:59And even though I had written and published
2:01a second book in 2015,
2:03I did not start taking the crap seriously
2:06until 2020, in the midst of George Floyd,
2:10the civil rights movement,
2:12the Black Lives Matter movement,
2:14and so many opportunities that emerged
2:17to hear our stories, to hear Black stories.
2:20I felt motivated to continue the short stories
2:23I had started writing and compile them
2:26and published stories for the urban soul.
2:28And that was in 2021, and that's when I got serious.
2:32That's when I said,
2:33let me see what's on the other side of this.
2:35I keep feeling this tug.
2:36I keep feeling like God is saying,
2:38this is your purpose.
2:39Even though I had a lot of inhibitions,
2:41I had a lot of fears, like,
2:43who makes money writing?
2:44Like, how am I gonna do this?
2:46But I had the resources, I had the capital.
2:48And so what I understood was that
2:50I needed to build a network.
2:52And then I started going hard,
2:54building a network, showing up at events,
2:57getting my marketing together and attacking it
3:01and creating the brand of Nicole D. Miller.
3:05And then once I said yes to that,
3:07the floodgates opened.
3:10So what was those initial moments
3:13or initial feelings and emotions
3:16as the floodgates started to open?
3:19Was it more overwhelmed or it was like,
3:21I'm ready for it?
3:23It was, I'm ready for it.
3:25It was so encouraging because it was being a creative.
3:30And I feel like there was nothing else
3:33like being a creative.
3:34There is a fulfillment in it
3:36that I never had with anything else.
3:39And then you see it actually working.
3:41You see the plan working.
3:43The doors opening, the opportunities emerging.
3:46You create your own lane.
3:48There is no one that can do what you do
3:50because you're originally made
3:51in the image of the creator.
3:53And that's what I discovered.
3:55And then I fell in love with writing
3:56in a way I had never fallen in love
3:58with literature before.
4:00So it was a high.
4:02It's addictive.
4:03It's like more, more, more.
4:06Give me more, right?
4:08And you start tapping into these parts of yourself
4:11that you didn't even know existed.
4:13So I would definitely say it was like a roller coaster
4:17ride, like one you wanna just keep going on.
4:20So during that roller coaster ride,
4:23what parts of yourself did you discover or rediscover,
4:26I would like to say?
4:28Yeah, all of this has been new for me.
4:34Being a creative or a fiction writer
4:37was something I never thought I could do.
4:40The first two books were nonfiction.
4:42So I thought, yeah, that's easier.
4:44I'm telling the truth.
4:45I'm telling what I lived through, right?
4:47But building worlds out of nothing
4:51and using your imagination, that was brand new.
4:55And nothing I ever thought I could do.
4:57I literally was intimidated to write a whole novel.
5:01And yet I started writing several
5:03and started writing a series
5:06and fell in love with the characters.
5:09And so that was part of it.
5:11Then there were these different aspects
5:13of being a writer.
5:14Being a freelance journalist is more technical.
5:17It's more serious, but I learned
5:20I love that too in a different way,
5:23especially when it comes to underrepresented people groups
5:27and oppressed people groups
5:29that I can shine a light on our community
5:34using that skill.
5:36So that was something that was amazing.
5:39And then I got into podcasting,
5:42which was not something I ever saw myself doing.
5:47I kind of dragged my feet with it
5:48like I did with everything else
5:50because I felt like it was saturated.
5:52I felt like everybody's podcasting.
5:54I personally don't like doing what everyone is doing.
5:56That's right.
5:57That's the eeriest thing.
5:59But spiritually, I felt like God said,
6:02but how many podcasts are mine?
6:04And so you are creating a space for my agenda, right?
6:11And even that getting birthed out was Girl Talk.
6:16And Girl Talk initially was a panel discussion on Zoom.
6:20So it's been a step-by-step process,
6:23but Girl Talk really connected me with community building.
6:26And that was another aspect of myself
6:28that I just had no clue existed.
6:30It was like, you have a gift to gather people.
6:34You have a gift to draw people together and go deep
6:37and have meaningful, life-changing conversations.
6:41And so that was another thing.
6:43And then the Indie Author Expo that birthed last year,
6:47and we're doing our second one this year.
6:50So the gift to gather,
6:52I do see that it was hinting at me in college
6:56because I did events in college,
6:59but it was dormant because I was so focused
7:02on the career path in business and finance.
7:07And because I kept seeing myself as a business woman,
7:10I was limiting myself.
7:12I didn't understand that I wasn't just a business woman,
7:15that I was both.
7:16I was a hybrid.
7:17I was a creative and a business woman.
7:21Creative entrepreneur.
7:23Exactly.
7:26And I would like to ask,
7:28do you have one, a favorite character,
7:31and then two, what character,
7:34as I'm looking at the cover of Devil's Cafe,
7:38is there a character who has exponential business?
7:45Do I have a favorite character?
7:48I can't necessarily say I do.
7:51I feel like I like writing all of them.
7:55In all of my books, they're very different.
7:58Sometimes I can get annoyed by certain characters
8:02and like where they're at.
8:03But they're needed.
8:04Yeah, yeah, they are.
8:06They need to grow.
8:07We all have to go through our growing pains.
8:10Devin is definitely the one
8:11that has the strong business acumen.
8:14And so even writing my latest novel,
8:17Devin's Cafe, named after Devin,
8:19I definitely channeled a lot
8:21of my personal business experience,
8:23as well as even my personal life
8:25and romantic experiences through his character.
8:30And it's pretty dope
8:32that I get to use my business background
8:35in my fiction writing.
8:37So he actually is a TA.
8:39He teaches a course, Management 202,
8:43and we see a scene of him teaching the students.
8:45And my experience being in academic
8:48and being in business,
8:50I'm able to use that world
8:53and include it with my characters.
8:55And it's natural and normal sounding.
8:58It's not made up or Googled.
9:00It's like, no, I know this by experience.
9:04I like that.
9:05And as you explain your books,
9:08and I know the books that you have out,
9:11do you foresee them becoming motion pictures, movies?
9:17That's definitely the big picture, pun intended.
9:21That's definitely the goal.
9:23I feel like my books are really to reach
9:26this generation, especially Devin's Cafe.
9:29When Love Wins, they're written for college students.
9:31That was a very impactful time in my life.
9:33So the young 20 something scene classified as new adult.
9:37And a lot of these younger people
9:39are not quick to pick up a book.
9:42And so I definitely think books being on film
9:45is a benefit to draw them into the literary world.
9:50I myself love documentaries,
9:52and I've gotten to learn a lot about historical legends
9:57in our community through documentaries.
9:59And so I see the power of film educating you.
10:05The power of film educating.
10:07So you mean no entertainment, just pure education.
10:12Well, I would say it's educating you
10:15on a topic you're interested in and intrigued by.
10:17So typical topics for me is I love music,
10:20I love entrepreneurship, I love the black community.
10:23I love character growth,
10:25and especially people who make it
10:27with this pipe dream that they have
10:30and they coming from nothing or they grinding
10:33and they going through all the things
10:35and they make it over stories of inspiration,
10:38which even with the publishing house that I have,
10:42a lot of my authors typically have stories
10:45of inspiration and resilience.
10:47And so I'm always drawn to those types of movies
10:51and films and documentaries.
10:52So it's educating you,
10:54but you're not feeling like you're trudging
10:57through the information
10:58because you're so engulfed and inspired by it
11:01and you are changed from watching it.
11:04Wow.
11:06And you look about 20 and you talk about all of this
11:12and even six books.
11:14I know it takes a single person to write one book
11:19just a few years, but you wrote six books.
11:23How long did it take you to complete six books?
11:26So I started writing When Love Wins.
11:31I believe it was probably 2021
11:33because I published Stories for the Urban Soul
11:35and I started writing When Love Wins.
11:37And that book, I had no idea what I was doing.
11:41I just knew I'm a good storyteller,
11:44but I didn't know the rules
11:47of the literary community of the industry.
11:50So I'm just writing to my heart's content,
11:52willy-nilly writing to my heart's content.
11:55Yeah, no outlining, just writing, free writing.
11:59And so I worked on it for probably about two years
12:02and then felt ready for my editor to look at it.
12:06And her feedback was encouraging,
12:08but it let me know I had work to do.
12:11And so I had to sit with it
12:13and work on it for a whole nother year.
12:15So there was a lot of patience involved.
12:18And after that, I published it in 2023.
12:22Now I had started writing the second book,
12:24Unfinished Business Lisa,
12:26which is part two or book two in the series.
12:29And that went faster.
12:31And I will say I probably was able to write Lisa
12:36and publish it within a year, year and a half.
12:40But then Devin's Cafe Book 3 was just supernatural
12:45because I was inspired by a good friend of mine
12:48who was the editor for the publishing house,
12:51Piper UC, shout out to Piper.
12:54And she said, I just wrote my sophomore novel in a month.
13:00And I'm like, what?
13:02And she has a nine to five and a family
13:05and all these other obligations.
13:06I'm like, okay, Nicole,
13:08if she could do this, you could do this.
13:10And so I gave myself a challenge,
13:12a self-induced challenge to write my book in a month.
13:15And so I ended up writing Devin's Cafe in 25 days
13:19and it poured out of me.
13:21But I had to be very strategic, very intentional.
13:24And it was a different experience for me
13:26because writing for me was always whenever I felt like it.
13:31It wasn't, you must complete this chapter today.
13:34You must write this amount of words today.
13:37So there were times I wanted,
13:38I didn't feel like writing had a full day.
13:40And it was like, but you haven't written
13:42this chapter today.
13:42I liked that, yeah.
13:44So I would push myself to be like a chapter a day.
13:47If you get a chapter a day done,
13:49you'll have this book in 30 days.
13:52Now the editing, especially since I'm a free writer
13:56and not an outliner, that takes more time.
13:59So I had this first draft manuscript done in 25 days
14:04and gave it to my editor, same editor
14:06from When Love Wins.
14:08And thank God she's great, she's thorough.
14:12So here I am in love with the story,
14:14excited I wrote this book this fast,
14:16but thankfully she helped draw so much more out of it.
14:20So she gave me similar feedback
14:22of the first one of like great story,
14:25great first starts, now flesh this out.
14:29And she doesn't even know,
14:31like I wrote it really succinctly
14:32because I wrote it so fast.
14:34But sitting with her feedback,
14:36I probably took another three months
14:40and was like, okay, I'm ready.
14:43And so overall, it probably took less than five months
14:49for me to write the first draft
14:52and edit it and publish,
14:54which is the fastest book project I've ever completed.
14:58But it's also my third project.
15:02And of course, I've been an author even longer
15:04for over 10 years.
15:06So it takes time, it takes practice,
15:08and I've learned so many tools and tricks along the way.
15:13So I could see my progress,
15:15I could see how I'm getting more skilled as a writer,
15:18I'm developing as a writer,
15:19and I can hit the mark faster
15:21to publish quality stories quicker.
15:26So what tips would you give someone
15:29that's maybe new to writing
15:31and it's taken years for them to complete a book
15:34and maybe they want to write their book faster,
15:37what tips would you give them?
15:39And I think it's difficult for a lot of people
15:41to complete their books
15:42because you don't get paid for writing.
15:45So more than likely, this is not your full-time.
15:48You probably do have other obligations,
15:51children, that sort of thing.
15:53And I'm reminded of Toni Morrison's story
15:56where she was a single mom.
15:58She had two boys.
16:00She had a full-time job in the publishing industry.
16:04So she would wake up at 4.30 every morning.
16:06She would close, well, she actually kept her door open
16:09because she wanted the kids to know
16:11that they still had access to her.
16:13But she had to fight for it.
16:15And so if you're serious about getting your book done,
16:18allot yourself a timeframe each day to work on it
16:24because eventually it's gonna get done
16:25if you're diligent about working on it.
16:28But you have to fight for that time.
16:29Give yourself goals, give yourself word count goals,
16:33take walks to stimulate your brain,
16:35join writing communities to stimulate your gifts.
16:38But you do have to be very intentional.
16:40And it can happen, but you have to want it to happen.
16:44Now you mentioned take walks to stimulate your brain.
16:47Is there any other activities you do
16:49or is there like music or songs
16:51that get you in the mood for writing?
16:54My typical experience is I have lo-fi jazz playing.
16:59Yes, yes.
17:00I could have a candle, I could have a glass of wine
17:03or a cup of coffee.
17:06And it really is this creative part of my brain.
17:10I don't do it just for writing.
17:11I do it for content creation.
17:14Just even when I'm working, anything that's creating,
17:17that's usually like my vibe that stimulates me
17:20to be like, okay, this is my time to connect with God
17:24and to just flow and to release whatever is in me
17:28to flow out in this creative way.
17:31That's beautiful.
17:33And I know you spoke about your publishing house
17:36and editor and I know you have beta readers.
17:39So what's the importance of a team
17:41when you're writing a book?
17:43And I think that's a great question
17:45because people view writers as being more solo, right?
17:49But if you want to build your brand
17:52and make it a business, you need a team.
17:55And so the publishing house, I can't do it all.
17:59I definitely need my editors.
18:01I need the designers.
18:03I actually do do the interior layouts
18:06but I need like the right graphic cover designers.
18:09And definitely beta readers are so key
18:13because my thing is I don't just want to be an author.
18:16I want to be a bestselling author.
18:17So I want my work to receive accolades and credit
18:21and respect from the literary community
18:24and the literary industry,
18:25which means I need to present top tier work.
18:28So the process for me to go through that
18:30with Win Love Winds was even more extensive
18:33because my characters are younger
18:35and I want to make sure it's relating to younger people.
18:38So I had a focus group of younger people
18:40and they are listening to these chapters
18:42and they're giving me feedback on vernacular,
18:46on clothing, on the music,
18:48making sure it relates to them.
18:50Then my characters are in a different city and state.
18:53They're in New York, they're in New Jersey.
18:55So I have to travel to New York.
18:57I need to make sure this is authentic
18:59to the New York environment and commuting from Jersey.
19:04Then I have interviews with New Yorkers
19:06because I want to make sure this is relatable for them
19:09and this sounds like them.
19:11So there's so much market research that I put into,
19:15especially with Win Love Winds
19:16because that was setting the tone.
19:19And beta readers are key.
19:21So with Devin's Cafe, this is my first male protagonist.
19:25I have never written from the mind of a man in a novel.
19:30Now I've done it in my short stories,
19:32but never a full-blown novel.
19:35So now I'm like, I need guys to read this book
19:38and make sure that I am on point
19:40with the bro language and the guy time,
19:45what's happening when women are not around,
19:48that sort of thing.
19:50So definitely bringing in male beta readers was key.
19:52Young black men are definitely my target market
19:56for this book.
19:58But again, if you really want a quality book,
20:02you're gonna be doing
20:03a lot of behind the scenes market research
20:05for it to be respected in the literary community.
20:09Wow, market research.
20:11I think that's something a lot of people skip,
20:14putting that time to research.
20:17Even before this interview,
20:19how long we've known each other,
20:21I'm still doing research,
20:24just to have talking points
20:26and have it flow better and make it intriguing.
20:30It's that preparation.
20:32Preparation.
20:33And I think I don't really think about it so natural
20:35the way my brain works,
20:37but I recognize the difference meeting other people
20:40who are indie authors who may not be taking it seriously
20:43or it's not a business.
20:45But you do all of that just for the products
20:48and then you actually do all that for your brand.
20:51And then you do a lot of the marketing for the brand.
20:54So to get the product seen,
20:57to get the product known, right?
20:59So it's definitely a lot of investment
21:01of your time, creativity and resources.
21:04But to your point, the network, right?
21:06So not only did I create or find my team
21:10for my publishing house,
21:11I found it for the marketing.
21:13I found it in the community that we're in.
21:16And that was the word that God had given me.
21:18Like I've given you the resources,
21:19the time, the creativity, your job is to network.
21:22And being an introvert, which most writers are,
21:25that was uncomfortable for me.
21:27So I would just go to networking events
21:28and make one or two deep impactful connections.
21:33And I didn't realize it, but I was building my tribe.
21:37And then starting Girl Talk expanded that.
21:40Let's speak about Girl Talk.
21:42I know you say that you started on Zoom
21:44and I was there part of the early days
21:46and even seeing it be coming to fruition live
21:50now as an event.
21:53What was your thoughts when you first, first was like,
21:59I wanna start Girl Talk.
22:01Let me get my girls together and let's talk.
22:04What was the origins of Girl Talk?
22:07That's a good question.
22:09I had a title and this is how God deals with me.
22:12I get inspired, I get an idea with a title.
22:15And that has happened even in undergrad.
22:17I remember I had a title, Calling All Saints.
22:21And what I didn't realize,
22:22it was a student led organization
22:25that hosted community events, events on campus.
22:29So with Girl Talk, I had the title
22:31and I had a close friend of mine
22:33who I thought I was gonna do this experience with.
22:36And so we had talked about it
22:38and the way that the vision was cast,
22:40it was more of us probably interviewing different women,
22:44but it wasn't a panel discussion, right?
22:46It was kind of like highlighting different women,
22:49but it was pressing on my heart to do this Girl Talk
22:54and she wasn't in a position in her life to move forward,
22:58but I felt this urgency of you need to move forward.
23:02And what came to me was the scripture
23:04where God asked Moses, what's in your hand, right?
23:08And so that's what came to me.
23:09It was like, what's in my hand?
23:11Women, I have so many women in my life
23:14and these are amazing women.
23:16They're all like high achieving and community impact
23:19and leaders and all this stuff.
23:21So that's what I did.
23:22I was like, well, I'm moving forward.
23:23This is on my heart.
23:24I'm just gonna get a group of women on Zoom
23:27and we're gonna talk about feminism.
23:28So we're gonna talk about this hot topic,
23:30especially in a faith-based community
23:33of what this means to us.
23:36And that really was the kickoff.
23:37And I remember Alicia being on that platform
23:40and she was like, this is gonna be a podcast.
23:42And she just started speaking all this stuff.
23:44And I'm like, okay, girl.
23:46You know?
23:48And then towards the probably second year,
23:52they wanted it in person.
23:54And it was the demand of the community.
23:56It was the demand of the people
23:58that keep bringing forth the elevation.
24:01And they were like, we want this.
24:04So we had it in person.
24:06And then by the time we had our first mail discussion,
24:10all mail panel discussion, which you were featured in,
24:12it was really heavy on my heart.
24:14Get this into a podcast.
24:15Get this into a podcast.
24:17And then I had to convert three years worth
24:20of Zoom talks into a podcast.
24:23I was like, okay, Lori, go help me do this.
24:25But it was phenomenal.
24:27And now there is no turning back.
24:28Yeah, and you did it.
24:30And like you said, no turning back.
24:31And I was surely honored to be a part of that panel.
24:36I believe the youngest members.
24:38So just to see all that wisdom that I was surrounded by
24:42and things that I have to look up to and work on myself.
24:45It was just, it was just beautiful.
24:47Just to witness and be a part of.
24:49Well, thank you for saying that.
24:51I definitely felt like those men were hand selected
24:54and it was a divine connection.
24:56And for me, you're a personal brother.
24:58So it was just like, of course you're gonna be on it.
25:01Oh, honored, yeah.
25:03Yeah, I learned so much.
25:05And it's actually a video that I'll review from time.
25:09Just the rooms and panels and the platform
25:15that you hold and bring and put together is just amazing.
25:19It's surely divine.
25:21Like there's no doubt about that.
25:24Thank you.
25:24And I would not be doing any of it
25:26if I did not feel it was spiritually led
25:29because it's nothing I ever saw myself doing.
25:32Everything I do today, I never could have fathomed.
25:44Do you know that it's spirit led?
25:46I think for me,
25:47that's why you have to have a relationship with the divine
25:50and intimate relationship
25:52because he talks in a lot of different ways.
25:54But once you know his voice,
25:56you know that he's speaking to you.
25:58I like that, yeah.
25:59And part of it is, in my journey,
26:02no other open doors will happen
26:04except for the door I'm supposed to go through.
26:06So even when I felt called to be an entrepreneur
26:09and I'm dragging my feet
26:10and I'm trying to get this nine to five
26:12and I'm not trying to be an entrepreneur,
26:15I'm running into obstacles.
26:17And I remember I was working at a temp company
26:20for another small business
26:23and the guy had hired me temporarily
26:25and he says to me,
26:26you should start your own business.
26:28And I'm like, who tells you
26:30to start your own business, right?
26:31When they're hiring you.
26:34But for me, it's a matter of feeling
26:37an internal prompting and knowing in my heart,
26:41I am supposed to be doing this
26:43and no practical open doors will happen for me
26:47until I do this.
26:50So a lot of times it's that
26:51or other people keep speaking something
26:54like Alicia saying, this should be a podcast, right?
26:58Or even with the publishing house,
27:01her mother giving me the word,
27:02you're gonna own a publishing house one day.
27:04And I'm like, mm.
27:05And then Alicia being like, publish me, you know?
27:08So sometimes you hear something over and over
27:10and you're like, okay, I think right now.
27:15And it's just a testimony for that.
27:18Alicia becoming your first publisher.
27:20I'm like, that's amazing.
27:23And yeah, I definitely have her book as well.
27:27So it's amazing.
27:29Even our whole journey
27:30because she and I have known each other for so long
27:32in a different capacity.
27:34So to be in this space,
27:36to be running alongside each other,
27:39it just shows how God puts people in your path way ahead.
27:42You don't understand the full reasoning.
27:46You and I got closer in the last few years.
27:49When I first met you, I couldn't have foresaw that.
27:51There's so many people in my life
27:54that were just kind of around
27:57that when the time came, they drew closer.
28:01And it was like, okay, we're running this race together.
28:04We are surely running.
28:06And even going back to what you said,
28:10you watching documentaries now,
28:13even having the privilege to work on your own documentary.
28:17Like, what is the feeling like, first off?
28:20I flashback, and I don't know if you remember
28:23when we were at the event that JR had hosted.
28:26And he's the one that said,
28:29you should start, you should do a documentary.
28:31Again, it's always somebody else saying something.
28:34It's nothing I ever saw myself doing.
28:37As much as I love documentaries,
28:40because I was just like, maybe one day,
28:43but I knew like, no, something's for this.
28:46And you're sitting right there with me.
28:48So I'm like, okay, let me talk to Aileen about this.
28:52And now that we're in the weeds with this project
28:55and kind of seeing it come alive,
28:58I think the biggest impact it's making on me
29:01is that God answered my prayer.
29:03And I feel emotional talking about it
29:05because in it, it starts off with me crying out to God.
29:10What is my purpose?
29:11I was in such a dark space with grieving my mother,
29:16feeling like my origin was gone, feeling so alone.
29:21And again, no open doors in my career.
29:24I'm trying to get a job, no open doors.
29:27Not understanding that my purpose was there all along.
29:31I had already had two books published,
29:34but I could not see it because my mindset had to switch.
29:38So the documentary is such a testament to like,
29:41man, look at what all transpired
29:44after that moment of calling out to God.
29:48And this was his answer.
29:51That's what I see you watching.
29:53And I'm like, man, you really answered that.
29:59It's definitely touching.
30:01So I kind of want to shift gears
30:04and speak on the other side of entrepreneurship,
30:07like the dark side, the dark moments.
30:11What were some of those challenges like?
30:14I think it's about doing it alone.
30:17So even though I have community,
30:19I still don't have that core family
30:21that I've always longed for.
30:23And my mother and grandmother not being here
30:25are the natural to see it.
30:26Like so much of what inspires me
30:30is upholding their legacy,
30:32incorporating them in my writing,
30:34subtly honoring them in the documentary.
30:38But you are so grieving
30:40that they can't be here in the natural.
30:43At my events, at every milestone that I make,
30:47they're not physically here.
30:49And so I have my community, thank God,
30:52and my loved ones,
30:54but I still carry that grief
30:58that I have to do this on my own.
31:02Whereas so much of their journeys they had,
31:05we all had each other.
31:07So even when my grandmother transitioned,
31:09my mother still had me,
31:11but I'm the one that has to do it alone without them.
31:16And it's a cross, it's definitely difficult,
31:20but I recognize how much love has been poured into me
31:23and how much love still surrounds me
31:25and the people that choose me.
31:28But it's just a part of life.
31:30There's always hard things in life, you know?
31:33And what I was reflecting on earlier today was
31:36what makes us different
31:39is that we push through those hard times.
31:43We're always going to have hard times,
31:46but it's the ones who push through
31:48and get to the next side,
31:50the next day, the next moment.
31:53Those are the ones with the testimonies.
31:55Those are the ones who are resilient.
32:00How powerful is a testimony?
32:03People that may be afraid to share or share their story,
32:09how powerful is a testimony?
32:12I definitely think it's transformative.
32:14And I was talking about this in a different interview
32:17I had earlier today.
32:19What motivated me to share vulnerably
32:22in how to overcome heartbreak was
32:24who was on the other side of this book
32:26that this is going to help in their despair.
32:28It's powerful.
32:30And sometimes it's like writing to your former self
32:32or writing to an older version of yourself.
32:36What would you tell your older version?
32:39Even sometimes for me, these books,
32:42the Stubborn's Cafe series is like,
32:44man, if I was in college,
32:45this is what I would have wanted to read, you know?
32:49So I think definitely the power of testimonies
32:54is transformative, it's impactful,
32:56and it can save someone's life.
33:01Was there a time where someone came to you personally
33:04and said your story, your book, your testimony,
33:08like saved them?
33:11I can't say saved them, but I can definitely say
33:15it really inspired them and gave them hope
33:18that they knew they can make it through
33:20because we had had similar journeys, for sure.
33:25So I know you are a part of many different things,
33:29but I would like to talk
33:30about the Greater Cleveland Association
33:33of Black Journalists.
33:35Like first, what does that mean to you?
33:38Well, it's an organization that promotes literacy
33:43in the black community first and foremost,
33:46empowering black voices,
33:49enlightening our audience and community.
33:57And so it's an honor to be connected by this legacy
34:02of writers that have went before me
34:04that are still current day.
34:06And Rhonda Crowder is the president
34:11and she is a dear friend.
34:12I love her spirit, I love her humility.
34:15She's invested in me, she's invested in Girl Talk,
34:18she's invested in my events.
34:20She's at the Indy Author Expo.
34:22And so having that type of support system
34:26as an up and comer,
34:28because I consider myself an up and comer.
34:30Really?
34:31Oh yeah, for sure.
34:32I mean, for me, again, I didn't have a degree
34:35in writing or creativity,
34:38which I thought is what qualified you to be a real writer.
34:41And I look at these people like, okay,
34:45they got the real, they got the chops,
34:47they have the actual credentials and things.
34:51So for me to be in this network to write articles
34:55that actually is respected by the community,
34:58it's like, oh, I have an innate gift.
35:03I have an innate gift.
35:04Of course, I've cultivated my gift
35:07with different workshops and practicing,
35:09but I had an actual gift
35:11and writers can go different paths.
35:13That's what I didn't know is that
35:15there's no one path to become a writer.
35:18But yeah, the organization itself,
35:20I definitely am blessed by the connections
35:23that I've made and what they stand for.
35:26And I think it also gave me more affirmation
35:31as I pursue my journalism endeavors
35:34for different platforms, such as Maseret,
35:37that I have to shout out as a community partner, for sure.
35:44And going back to that bookkeeping,
35:46I see a lot of structuring and planning events
35:49and being a part of these organizations.
35:51It's a lot of structure.
35:54So what was something when you first thought of
35:59the Author Indie Expo or some of those
36:04hard moments, those tough moments,
36:08some chaotic, out of place moments,
36:11like, oh, I don't see this getting done.
36:13Even though it got done, but in the early stages,
36:17what was those confusing, unstructured moments?
36:21What I'll say is in the Indie Author Expo
36:24was born out of a negative experience
36:27I had years ago at a different expo.
36:29And so my heart was,
36:31I want to give indie authors
36:33a better experience than what I had.
36:36And my heart is always going to be for indie authors
36:39because you're out there hustling.
36:41You've already spent X amount of years
36:43working on this book.
36:45And now you're trying to get it visible
36:47and you're spending so much money on vendor tables.
36:50I've been in the rain, I've been in the heat,
36:51I've been injured, and you're just out there grinding.
36:55Right, you've been injured.
36:57Yes, I've had people giving me rides
37:00because I'm in a boot or I'm on crutches,
37:03but I'm still like, I'm going to the...
37:05That's perseverance, wow.
37:07Yeah, and so all of that to say the Indie Author Expo
37:12was inspired out of negative experiences
37:15and empathy towards the grind,
37:18because you're at events where people
37:20necessarily don't buy books or don't read.
37:22And so you're competing with the cute boutiques
37:25or the jewelry or the makeup or whatever, right?
37:27And you're like, I have this book.
37:30So I wanted to give a space
37:32where people actually are coming for you
37:35and really to put money in the pockets of vendors.
37:38Now what I'll say, one of the big hiccups
37:40that happened with the first one was the venue.
37:44So to your point, I am very structured.
37:46I'm very much a planner.
37:48That's how I do all the things.
37:50And I'm kind of like line upon line,
37:53dot my I's, cross my T's,
37:56but you know, life be livin', so things happen.
37:59And so I had locked in the venue months in advance
38:02and probably within weeks before the event.
38:06I learned that we can not sell books at that site
38:10and I'm like, but that's the purpose of the event.
38:12Right, right, whoa.
38:14And so I had to pivot
38:16and this is the blessing of being an entrepreneur.
38:19I mean, you learn how to flow.
38:21You learn how to pivot.
38:22You know everything is not going according to plan.
38:24So entrepreneurship trains you for these experiences
38:28and you built your network.
38:30So it's like, I know too many people
38:32for me not to lock in the venue.
38:34That was in my heart.
38:35It's like, I know too many people.
38:37So I started sending out text messages.
38:40Thank God, Charles of Breakthrough Sounds came through
38:43in a clutch and that was a big deal for me
38:47because I don't consider myself a big visionary,
38:50but that one was like all these pieces and parts to it.
38:55Then you're leading over 20 people.
38:58Then I had community partners
39:00because I included the podcast also and my book launch
39:04and I had decor.
39:05It was like, okay, we're going to do the things, right?
39:08And it was a win.
39:08It was a success, but there was that moment of like,
39:12am I supposed to be doing this?
39:15But then what rose up in me was I know too many people.
39:19And I think when you get to that stage,
39:24whatever your industry is or your calling is,
39:28there's a stage you're going to get to
39:30where you're progressing,
39:32where you're going to have that confidence
39:34to navigate the harder obstacles.
39:36You're going to have the network in place
39:39because you've already been through some things.
39:41By the time you get there,
39:43you're like, I can make it over this
39:45because I've made it over X, Y and Z.
39:47Even if you've never necessarily faced that thing,
39:51it's like, but I faced too many other things
39:54not to overcome this thing.
39:56So that's definitely one of them.
39:59Hosting events in general,
40:01it's always opportunity for things to happen.
40:05I remember one in particular,
40:07one girl talk that happened in particular
40:10and we didn't realize this until like a couple days
40:13before that the address was wrong on the flyer.
40:16It's like stuff like that, it's like what?
40:19And in the midst of that,
40:21my goddaughter was having a really hard time
40:23and I'm over their house for hours trying to console her
40:27and then I'm getting her,
40:28but we have, I'm getting texts
40:30about people having the wrong address
40:32and you just have fires.
40:35You know, I've been through so much
40:36with the publishing house,
40:38with publishing these authors, they have deadlines.
40:41I'm working with third parties.
40:42They're not answering.
40:44It's one thing after another.
40:46And you just learn how to put off the fires.
40:49And one thing I've learned even with my clients
40:51is they can freak out
40:52because they don't understand the process.
40:54I know the process.
40:56I've done this too many times.
40:58We're gonna make the deadline.
41:00I don't care what it takes.
41:02I will figure it out.
41:03And again, that's entrepreneurship.
41:05It teaches you it's like,
41:06nope, this is the goal.
41:08These are the hurdles and there's a way.
41:11I think when you develop an entrepreneurship mindset,
41:13you develop a mindset of there's another way.
41:16Find the other way to reach the goal.
41:19Other way to reach the goal.
41:22Wow.
41:23Wow.
41:24That's a good title.
41:28And as I hear about these different challenges
41:32and you overcoming them,
41:34what are some of those challenges
41:36and the lessons that you're taking
41:39towards this year's author in the expo?
41:43I definitely learned some things last year
41:46about who I allow in this space
41:49and that I can't partner with everyone.
41:51So not even just with the expo,
41:53but with my brand, with Andy Miller Publishing.
41:56If our brand values are not in alignment,
41:59we cannot work together.
42:01And so I had to adapt that same.
42:03What's your brand values?
42:05Well, I'm a faith-based community related organization.
42:10And so a lot of them have to do
42:13with community transformation, impact, inspiration.
42:16It can't be anything that is polluting our community,
42:23degrading our community,
42:24and it's not inspiring someone in a positive way.
42:30So those are basic things,
42:33but that is something that I had to learn.
42:36So I've been very more intentional about vetting,
42:41which I was intentional last year,
42:43but I learned that I have to be more intentional.
42:46Even more, yeah.
42:48Even more, but I'm super excited
42:51about this group of authors
42:52and the connections that they're gonna make
42:55and what they're bringing to the table
42:56and some surprises I have for them as well.
42:59Surprises, we love surprises,
43:02but that reminds me of a situation
43:05I had with a musician.
43:07First, I don't really interview too many musicians,
43:11especially that doesn't have the business structure
43:13or just the business mindset,
43:16so I kind of avoid them.
43:18But like you said,
43:20people that's polluting your brand
43:24and tainting the population of negativity.
43:29So it's important to vet
43:32because yeah, that alignment is powerful.
43:36And sometimes it takes years.
43:38Sometimes you don't see aspects of people from a distance
43:41and when you get close to you're like,
43:43oh, we're not in alignment.
43:45And I had to learn that too.
43:51We'll talk later, we'll talk.
43:55So what is something you're looking forward
43:56to author any expo in?
43:58It's like less than 20 days.
44:01June 20th, 12 to 4 p.m. at Breakthrough Sound Studio.
44:05I'm excited to feature Jill Justice,
44:08who's a local poet and she's becoming a good friend.
44:12So I'm excited to give her that space
44:13to do what she does well.
44:15But I think overall
44:17is the connectivity and synergy of the people.
44:20It feels like family.
44:21It's a vibe, it's wholesome,
44:24it's uplifting, it's encouraging.
44:26We celebrate Juneteenth.
44:28So we honor our ancestors.
44:31We honor legacy.
44:34And yeah, I had this moment last year where I looked up
44:37and it was just like an organism.
44:40It was so organic and there was just this flow
44:43or even that people were waiting at the door at 12 sharp.
44:47I just was like, okay.
44:51So I think for me it feels a little overwhelming
44:53because again, I feel like that small introverted girl
44:59who was rejected and bullied
45:00and didn't have friends growing up
45:02and to see God just, I don't know,
45:07turn all of that around.
45:09The very area that I was attacked in
45:11is my gift to gather.
45:14And it blows my mind of like,
45:16I can't believe all these people came here
45:17because I said we're doing an event.
45:21And books, that's a hard sell.
45:25Sometimes literally, it's hard back.
45:30I mean, Cleveland has a 66% illiteracy rate.
45:33It's struggling in that way.
45:35So for people to show up, it's like,
45:37okay, we're really doing something in this space.
45:43Definitely read that statistic
45:45and just been around in youth
45:47and it's like they don't, like you said,
45:49they don't pick up books and they don't read
45:52or they have struggled in reading
45:54and I can only blame the parents and the teachers.
45:59The teachers at these schools.
46:01And I talked about this earlier,
46:02it really is all of our responsibility
46:05in the home, at the schools, in the community,
46:09be the village, you know,
46:12to equip them to combat their present day obstacles
46:16and distractions such as social media,
46:18to stimulate their creative minds.
46:20Like we have to take that burden as a whole.
46:25So how do you feel we could change that?
46:29I know it's not gonna take a day,
46:30maybe not a year, but over the course of time.
46:34I think that if everyone had that mindset,
46:36like I was watching a film called
46:38Forever Free and the Literacy Playbook.
46:41I just did an article from Macere
46:44it'll be dropping the next week or two
46:46and it's exposing the playbook
46:49of using literacy as a tool to control
46:52and how the inner city, people of color
46:56have had historical oppression
46:59using the tool of literacy
47:01stemming from slaves not being able to read
47:04or the enslaved not being able to read or prohibited
47:08because they knew those in power understood
47:11that once you understand how to read,
47:14you're empowered.
47:15And so sadly, the powers that be
47:19are still using those tools
47:21and we see it happening in impoverished communities.
47:25So a lot of the film is explaining
47:30what's happening behind the scenes
47:31but the call is for the community to rise up
47:35to create events and literary programs
47:39and attack it from so many different sides
47:42of who's in power,
47:43who are you selecting as your representatives
47:46but also boots on the ground,
47:48connecting with educators, librarians,
47:51that sort of thing.
47:52And you have to have a lot of different things in play
47:55for us to attack this experience, right?
48:00This negative experience happening to our children
48:02who are still suffering.
48:04But one thing I talk about in my article
48:06is what I'm inspired by is what happens
48:08when community comes together
48:10to face something such as the civil rights movement
48:14for us to receive the freedoms that we have
48:18and we're still in this fight
48:19but I'm a recipient of their fight,
48:22being a homeowner, being a business owner,
48:24being able to do the things I do because of their fight,
48:27what can we do when we come together?
48:30So whatever the answers are,
48:31I definitely think it relies on us coming together
48:34but it is going to be a lot of different pockets,
48:38movements that are happening
48:40in the top tier levels of government, of education
48:43but also in the boots on the ground,
48:45community activism.
48:48And as you speak on activism,
48:50I wanna surely applaud you
48:53for being an emerging leader.
48:56How does it feel being honored in that way
49:00and receiving that award?
49:02That was extremely encouraging.
49:04I got that award through Career Mastered
49:08and their female-led magazine
49:10and I got to interview Dr. Lisa Wicker on Girl Talk,
49:14who's the founder and she is a trailblazer
49:16and a heavy hitter, she's done so much.
49:19And that award, I was the recipient in 2024.
49:24So interestingly enough, I think it was so fitting
49:26because I really was emerging in 2024.
49:29I didn't have some of the opportunities I got,
49:33even in that year.
49:35In that year, I was featured
49:36with Powerbrand, with Futureland,
49:38it was like things just really took off that year
49:41but it was a huge honor
49:43because there were all of these women
49:45with decades worth of impact.
49:50And so it was a preview of the call.
49:52It was like, this is the call, Nicole.
49:55And I was surrounded by women leaders
49:57and I felt like I was incubated
49:59in a spirit of resiliency.
50:01I felt like everyone there had faced so much,
50:06yet they were still there
50:08and they had brought so many with them
50:11and I understood that that was the call of my life.
50:17But yeah, even to kind of come full circle
50:20and interview Dr. Lisa Wicker, who's the founder
50:24and see the doors that opened up from that moment,
50:27it confirmed like, yep, you were emerging
50:31and now the torch has been passed.
50:33Wow, and as you say, the torch has been passed
50:37is like so many phenomenal women
50:40that you attract and are networking with
50:43and bringing a part of your community.
50:46Is there someone else that you have not met
50:49or is willing to meet and wanting to collaborate with?
50:55That's a good question.
50:58I can't say that there is any one individual.
51:03What I'll say is my heart is being pulled
51:07towards the entertainment industry
51:09and my network is expanding with entertainment,
51:15people affiliated with entertainment,
51:17like filmmakers and directors and actors and actresses
51:20and I see that shift happening where I'm like, okay,
51:25but there's no one person,
51:27but what I've learned is the need
51:31for how they present themselves in the forefront,
51:33it needs to match the behind the scenes.
51:37The character needs to be there,
51:39the maturity needs to be there,
51:40the heart needs to be there.
51:41It can't just be outwardly you look successful
51:45and you're flourishing and you're helping others.
51:49It has to be who are you behind the scenes
51:51and that needs to match when I'm saying outwardly.
51:55It is powerful
51:58and I know the right people will continue to come.
52:01Like you said, my spirit lad,
52:06it's amazing, just being in the rooms,
52:09being at these events that you curate,
52:13like it's always a good time, always genuine connections,
52:16always genuine vibes, just greatness and pure greatness.
52:24I appreciate that and I do feel like
52:26it's a reflection of my inner tribe.
52:29I've been in the same spiritual community
52:31for two decades.
52:32We mentioned Alicia, she's a part of that.
52:34I have a good group of girls
52:36that I've been best friends with since college.
52:38I've been loved and blessed by so many good people
52:42and so my goal was to curate these spaces
52:45that reflected that, my personal life.
52:48I like that, like you said, the reflection.
52:51I know you speak a lot on college.
52:53I wanna touch more on your college.
52:55Like what really happened in your college years,
52:58like from freshmen all the way to graduation?
53:04So, that's a meaty question.
53:07When I went to college,
53:10I was in a very serious relationship.
53:13I thought I'm getting married right after college.
53:17This is my boo, this is gonna be my man forever.
53:22And I had no idea what was ahead of me.
53:25So I ended up depressed,
53:27didn't even know I was depressed.
53:29You said you didn't know you were depressed.
53:31Didn't know, didn't even know what that was.
53:33So how did you find out?
53:34So I had an administrator,
53:36one of the few black administrators,
53:39who said to me, you're depressed.
53:41He gave me a word.
53:43He said, what do you like to do?
53:44I said, I love music.
53:46He said, you should join the gospel choir.
53:48So I joined the gospel choir my sophomore year
53:52and in that choir, there were two young students
53:56who announced that they had a Bible study.
53:58And so I went to the Bible study
54:00and some of my best friends from my dorm were there
54:03and God started moving with us.
54:05We started craving the word.
54:07The supernatural started manifesting.
54:10It was just signs and miracles and wonders
54:13and God just took over.
54:16And I had always had a relationship with God,
54:19but I had never experienced anything like that.
54:22And so God swept me off my feet.
54:25And then right after that experience,
54:27my then fiance cheated on me.
54:32So I faced my first heartbreak ever.
54:34And thankfully I had a strong community
54:37and this new relationship with God,
54:39but it was like heartbreak central.
54:41And so I had to start doing the work
54:44of healing from that,
54:46but didn't really fully start healing
54:48until after graduation.
54:50But I also became very involved on campus.
54:53Like I mentioned,
54:53I had started an organization called Calling on Saints.
54:56My friends were helping with that organization.
55:00We did a dance ministry.
55:01I became a resident assistant.
55:03I became a leader and I couldn't have seen that then,
55:06but that's what was happening.
55:08And so I became very active
55:11and with my relationship with God,
55:13became active in ministry.
55:16So for me,
55:17college was not a typical experience
55:19that you hear a lot of other people share about
55:21because it was a revelation of my calling
55:25and my identity and this group of people
55:28who were gonna be my tribe
55:29and I was gonna be doing life with for 20 years.
55:32But it also was a huge blow.
55:34One of my biggest first blows with that breakup
55:38and my whole trajectory of life,
55:41my plan, my life plan shifted,
55:44but I made it through
55:47and have been the better for it.
55:53And I always love to hear the positivity
55:55at the end of dark situations, negative situations,
55:59like you said, overcoming a heartbreak
56:01as all of us probably experience heartbreak over time
56:06no matter what it was.
56:07I know I have and I wrote some of my greatest songs,
56:12some of them not released,
56:13but I remember just writing it out,
56:16writing my heart out, writing my pain out.
56:18And it's like, wow,
56:19I created this from this ugly situation,
56:23this bad, hard, aching situation.
56:29So being in college,
56:32you didn't see yourself as a creative
56:35as much as you do now.
56:38So did you find yourself writing at all
56:41during that challenging time?
56:42You know what's interesting?
56:43So I always loved music.
56:45So music would have been my outlet
56:48and that's why I was in the dance ministry
56:50and the gospel choir.
56:52My ex was a rapper.
56:55I reconnected because I sang on his,
56:57he needed a singer.
56:58So that was the space
57:00that I thought I would move in creatively.
57:03But there was something in me
57:04that knew I was a good writer.
57:06So when I really struggled with calculus
57:08in the business program,
57:10I was like, I can't do this anymore.
57:13I'm gonna be a journalism major.
57:14So I declared myself a journalism major.
57:17Switch gears.
57:18I did because I really felt like intimidated
57:21by the course, had been struggling
57:23and knew I was a good writer.
57:25But I felt very strongly God saying,
57:28marketing, marketing.
57:30Now at the time I'm like, why marketing?
57:33Like at the time I would have thought management.
57:36We didn't have entrepreneurship available back then.
57:38These are the early 2000s,
57:40but it took 15 years for me to get an answer.
57:45Why marketing?
57:46Because now that's what I do.
57:48But back then,
57:49academia couldn't have prepared me
57:51for the type of marketing I do.
57:53Email marketing, social media marketing,
57:55branding, brand storytelling.
57:57Like none of that existed back then,
58:00let alone entrepreneurship.
58:02So it's been a combination
58:04of my faith journey and life instances
58:09that have kind of helped me follow this path of purpose.
58:14But the biggest major decisions
58:17that I had to make in my life
58:20were hearing the Spirit of God.
58:23When I graduated college, I didn't have a job lined up.
58:26I didn't know what I was gonna do.
58:27I felt stressed.
58:29But what I heard very clearly was go back to Cleveland,
58:33move in with your mom, break up with your boyfriend.
58:36And those are three things I didn't wanna do.
58:38I didn't wanna come back to Cleveland.
58:40Me and my mom were beefing.
58:41I don't wanna live with her.
58:42I don't wanna break up with my boyfriend.
58:45So doing the hard thing,
58:47and that's something I valued at a young age,
58:51doing the hard thing rewarded me in the long run.
58:56And I had an understanding of delayed gratification,
58:59which is something a lot of young people
59:01probably don't have, but I did value.
59:04And I knew I'm gonna suffer now,
59:06but I'm gonna reign later.
59:07And I think I've always had that understanding.
59:15As yourself, as a prolific writer,
59:17what you are, but in those early stages,
59:21how long did it take you to complete your first book?
59:24So when I shared about when love wins,
59:26that took three years, right?
59:30So again, I value, I have perseverance.
59:33I value the long-term.
59:35It's like, I don't mind taking my time,
59:38even though I do struggle with patience.
59:40But I think spiritually,
59:41God has cultivated that in me.
59:43And so yeah, writing took me by surprise,
59:49but once I fell in love with it, I couldn't get enough.
59:55How did you overcome that heartbreak?
59:59And that, you would have to read the book
1:00:01because I share all of those tips.
1:00:03What's the title?
1:00:04But I'll give you,
1:00:05the title is how to overcome heartbreak,
1:00:07recovering from misguided love.
1:00:09I'll give you some of the tips,
1:00:12learning who you are outside of a relationship.
1:00:15I was very young, I lost my identity,
1:00:18didn't really know who I was, was codependent.
1:00:21So one of the biggest things that God was doing
1:00:24that I didn't realize was happening
1:00:25was him giving me my own friends,
1:00:29giving me my own interests,
1:00:31finding things that I like to do
1:00:34outside of the relationship was very healthy for me.
1:00:39Another thing, I had to deal with my own childhood trauma.
1:00:43What led me into that relationship?
1:00:46What was working in me that was unhealthy
1:00:48that caused me to attract someone unhealthy?
1:00:52Those are some of the things that I had.
1:00:57Learning who you are,
1:00:58learning who you are outside of someone else defining you.
1:01:02As you say, learning who you are,
1:01:05I love to preach, so I love to ask,
1:01:10how do you practice self love?
1:01:15I really enjoy my life.
1:01:17I love working out.
1:01:19That's like one of my things.
1:01:21I love shopping.
1:01:22I love drinking red dry wine.
1:01:25I love writing.
1:01:27I love doing what I do with this business,
1:01:31creating, doing events.
1:01:34I don't do anything that I don't love to do.
1:01:38Everything that I do in my life in this season,
1:01:41I love it.
1:01:42I love my cat.
1:01:45I love taking pictures.
1:01:47I love being cute and fashionable.
1:01:51Like, yeah, I take bubble baths.
1:01:54I get massages.
1:01:56You know, I love me.
1:01:59It's like, the women that I attract in Girl Talk
1:02:02are a reflection of me.
1:02:05And it's like, if I didn't,
1:02:08if I wasn't myself,
1:02:10like I would choose me to hang with.
1:02:13I would choose somebody like me to be like,
1:02:15you would be in my girl tribe.
1:02:17Like, I would be in my girl tribe.
1:02:19Yeah, I've said that before.
1:02:22I'm like, if I was outside of my body, my spirit,
1:02:26I would choose myself.
1:02:27Like, I'm my own best friend.
1:02:29Like, if I met a female version of myself,
1:02:32I would choose, you know.
1:02:34But I'll say, it has been my walk with God.
1:02:39For me, it came out of,
1:02:41I think he knew the woman that I wanted to be.
1:02:45And so he led me through this journey of becoming her.
1:02:49And a lot of it came through
1:02:50making very, very hard decisions,
1:02:53letting go of people that I didn't want to let go of,
1:02:57doing the things that I didn't want to do,
1:03:00and knowing that one day I'll be rewarded,
1:03:03but not even understanding that it was molding me
1:03:06into this version, the best version that I could be.
1:03:12So as we speak about self-love,
1:03:16how important is that when it comes to business?
1:03:22Love yourself is just gonna overflow on your business.
1:03:25And when you love in your business,
1:03:26it's gonna overflow on your life.
1:03:29So how important is that?
1:03:31And as I touched on before,
1:03:33I want the people I connect with
1:03:35to be the same behind the scenes
1:03:37as they are in the forefront.
1:03:39And I think that that's connected.
1:03:42Because with me, what you see is what you get.
1:03:44And I think most people recognize
1:03:46that I'm an authentic person.
1:03:47And so when I'm presenting on Girl Talk or publicly,
1:03:53it's like, yeah, I walk this stuff out behind the scenes.
1:03:57And so I definitely think it's,
1:03:59you need to be diligent about that character cultivation.
1:04:04You need to be healing.
1:04:06I'm a big advocate on inner healing.
1:04:08And that's why Girl Talk is about inner healing,
1:04:12because this is what I do.
1:04:13A lot of the topics that I choose
1:04:15are things I deal with,
1:04:18dealing with loss at the holidays.
1:04:21You know, the topic of feminism
1:04:23was from a guy I was seeing,
1:04:26dealing with colorism.
1:04:28That's been a personal issue.
1:04:29And a lot of those topics,
1:04:31I'd be nervous to talk about.
1:04:32Like, I don't know about this.
1:04:34But what I learned is you're not alone.
1:04:37That's true.
1:04:38So many people have these experiences
1:04:41and then we come together
1:04:42and we're able to get healing, strength, and courage
1:04:47on topics that were so difficult for us
1:04:50to deal with our face.
1:04:53So it's so important for you to do the inner work
1:04:57or else it's going to bleed into your business.
1:04:59It's going to bleed into your connections
1:05:01with other people.
1:05:03They are going to suffer
1:05:04unless you're doing the inner work on yourself.
1:05:07Wow, it brings me back to that airplane analogy
1:05:11like you have to save yourself
1:05:14before you can save someone else.
1:05:20And you gotta get above water
1:05:22before you can save somebody else
1:05:24and bring them to shore
1:05:25or bring them to the boat
1:05:27or bring them to the other side.
1:05:30I definitely could relate
1:05:32being in some similar situations
1:05:34and it's like that inner healing is needed
1:05:38and it's powerful
1:05:41because I've known so many people,
1:05:43even exes, that we just broken up
1:05:47and a couple days later they're in a new relationship
1:05:49multiple times back to back.
1:05:51It's unhealthy, it's toxic, it's like ugh.
1:05:55Like I take time, even when dating, I take time.
1:05:58Like people love jumping into relationships
1:06:00or jumping into something new before going back to vetting
1:06:04without vetting or even testing
1:06:06or even seeing what it would be like
1:06:08and it's just bad.
1:06:11Like you said, it just bleeds over and over and over
1:06:15without patching it up bad, bad, bad.
1:06:25For someone that wants to start book writing
1:06:29or be in business as an author
1:06:33and maybe own their own publishing,
1:06:35what are some tips you would give that person?
1:06:38As far as being an author,
1:06:40it's like use your craft,
1:06:43develop your craft, practice your writing.
1:06:45You only get better when you use it
1:06:46when you use your gifts.
1:06:48So to sharpen your gift,
1:06:49plug into writing communities,
1:06:51do the thing, don't make excuses, just do it.
1:06:55It's gonna be at the level that it's at
1:06:56and you're gonna see improvement.
1:06:58If I read any of my old work, I could critique it.
1:07:01We all can, but it's about the progress
1:07:04and the improvement.
1:07:06Starting a publishing house,
1:07:07you have to have a business acumen
1:07:09because now there's a lot of administration involved
1:07:13that's not necessarily involved with writing a book
1:07:16and you're leading others, you're leading a team.
1:07:19You need to know the industry as far as legal information.
1:07:25You need to know structure.
1:07:28So don't just think you're gonna start a publishing house.
1:07:33Do the research, know what you're getting into,
1:07:36know the market, know the type of clients
1:07:38that you wanna attract.
1:07:40Like I said, I vet clients and know the structure.
1:07:45Do your research.
1:07:46Cool.
1:07:47Is there benefits from somebody that wants
1:07:51to start their own versus go the traditional route?
1:07:56So there's a difference between being an indie author
1:07:58and actually starting a publishing house.
1:08:01So if you wanna publish your book yourself, you can,
1:08:04but if you want to curate spaces
1:08:06to publish other people's books,
1:08:09that's starting a publishing house.
1:08:11That's a whole different situation.
1:08:13But there's definitely differences
1:08:15between being a self-published author,
1:08:17being a traditional author and being a hybrid,
1:08:20publishing with a hybrid publisher such as myself.
1:08:23And you have to read the fine print
1:08:25and decide what works for you
1:08:26because no path is necessarily bad.
1:08:28It's just about what's best for you.
1:08:32Well, I know in the music industry,
1:08:34there's definitely bad, bad deals.
1:08:38And I remember I was excited when I got the opportunity
1:08:41to publish my first book on the time years ago, 2013.
1:08:51And I'm like, oh, a traditional publisher reached out
1:08:54to me, oh, they want to publish my book.
1:08:58And just not knowing at that young age,
1:09:03it was like an investment.
1:09:08You had to pay them?
1:09:11Exactly, not knowing.
1:09:12At that time, I was just excited.
1:09:14I'm like, I think it was,
1:09:17so two years before, 2011,
1:09:19a year after I graduated high school, I'm like,
1:09:23as soon as I buy a laptop,
1:09:26I'm going to publish my first book.
1:09:29I bought a laptop, started typing away,
1:09:31started editing all that,
1:09:32and just did exactly what I said I was gonna do.
1:09:37I published my book, 2013.
1:09:40I went with them and figured something is off.
1:09:53Saying they could publish four more additional books.
1:09:56Now, I did not,
1:09:59because since that book,
1:10:01I just went to self-publish, Rob.
1:10:03Just published my own books and just figured it out.
1:10:06I'm like, this is not a good deal.
1:10:09I'm like, I'm paying for them to publish my book
1:10:12and they're not marketing it,
1:10:15or how I see my books should be out there.
1:10:18So I'm like, I don't need them.
1:10:20Yeah, that was a huge red flag.
1:10:22First and foremost,
1:10:23you should never be paying a publisher to publish you
1:10:26unless it is a hybrid publishing
1:10:28and you're paying for services
1:10:30and you're gonna be promoting it.
1:10:33But a traditionally published company,
1:10:36they're gonna give you an advance.
1:10:39You're gonna sign a contract,
1:10:40but you even need to read that
1:10:41because it could be eaten up by marketing.
1:10:44It could be eaten up by a lot.
1:10:46Even when you're working with a hybrid publisher,
1:10:49typically they will take 50% of royalties.
1:10:52I actually don't.
1:10:54I allow my clients to keep all their royalties
1:10:56and you always own your own work.
1:10:59Like you should have your copyright.
1:11:01That's magic.
1:11:03But yeah, so for you to pay them is interesting
1:11:08and you have to read the fine print.
1:11:11Like you have to know what you're getting.
1:11:14The other thing is I specialize with using third parties
1:11:19that print on demand.
1:11:21And that is something that I speak passionately about
1:11:24because I've heard horror stories
1:11:26of authors working with publishers
1:11:28who have forced them, the contract says,
1:11:30they have to buy a thousand of their books
1:11:34and then you have to store the book somewhere.
1:11:39Publishing on demand allows you to keep track
1:11:42of what you need when you need your inventory.
1:11:44You want your inventory low.
1:11:45You only wanna buy how many you're gonna sell.
1:11:49You don't want all of these books
1:11:50sitting around doing nothing.
1:11:53So it's definitely a red flag.
1:11:54I mean, paying for services, yes,
1:11:58but even with paying for those services,
1:12:02you are guaranteed exposure, marketing,
1:12:07a level of something playing field with marketing
1:12:11and you also have all of your rights
1:12:13and you're in a position to push the book yourself
1:12:16if you need to.
1:12:19But yeah, that definitely sounded like a bad deal.
1:12:21Oh, talk about translating it to music.
1:12:25It was a 360 deals, it was just bad all around.
1:12:29I was young and dumb.
1:12:31Of course, you don't know when you're young.
1:12:33Just wanting to do it, just like you said,
1:12:35just do it and I got my book.
1:12:37Yeah, I got my book all right.
1:12:40And one of the things I do is I empower my authors
1:12:44to be indie authors.
1:12:45So I specialize in showing them the behind the scenes
1:12:49so that if they don't wanna publish with me again,
1:12:52they can do it themselves
1:12:53because for me, it's not about the money,
1:12:55it's about educating and empowering
1:12:57and I want them to have the right information
1:13:00so they're not taking advantage of.
1:13:02Yeah, that's powerful.
1:13:05Now, as you say,
1:13:08honing your craft earlier
1:13:10and just doing the work.
1:13:14Are there any workshops that you personally conduct at all?
1:13:18I did a workshop last year
1:13:20for Large Tumor Arts Festival
1:13:21and I'll be doing one
1:13:23at the Great Lakes Fiction Writers Conference next month,
1:13:26which is gonna be at the South Green
1:13:29and Euclid Library.
1:13:31I'm really looking forward to that.
1:13:32Barbara Howard is the president
1:13:34and she's actually gonna be a featured indie author
1:13:36at the expo and she was a featured author last year,
1:13:39which is very encouraging
1:13:40because several of the authors are coming back.
1:13:42So it's like, you know your event is dope
1:13:44if the authors wanna come back and do it again.
1:13:46Yeah.
1:13:47But yeah, I'll be doing that,
1:13:48manifesting your book and that's next month.
1:13:51So I think it's the 25th, July 25th.
1:13:56Is there any, I would say protection on your end
1:14:02when you're writing your book to get it published.
1:14:09Of course, you may start freehand,
1:14:12pen and paper and then you translate it over
1:14:16to computer to get it typed out.
1:14:19Like I remember being wiped out from music,
1:14:24poems, just random writings and notes to books.
1:14:30Like I had so many books.
1:14:32I was like, I'm about to be famous.
1:14:34I'm about to be rich.
1:14:35I'm about to be, you know.
1:14:37I took that fuel from that bad publishing deal,
1:14:41my first book.
1:14:43And I'm like, oh, I'm about to start writing.
1:14:46And then I caught a virus on my laptop
1:14:48and lost everything.
1:14:50So horrible.
1:14:51Like one of my biggest books I was writing at the time,
1:14:55which I was also writing a sequel, you know,
1:14:58I was making it a trilogy to my first book.
1:15:02But outside of that, my biggest book was
1:15:06What Is Life?
1:15:09I had so many questions about life.
1:15:12What is the simple definition of life?
1:15:16What is life?
1:15:17Is it this, is that, is that, is this?
1:15:19No, it's also this, is this, da, da, da, da.
1:15:22So I like to ask you,
1:15:23what is your personal definition?
1:15:26I really think it is a journey
1:15:32of discovering true identity,
1:15:35which I don't think we can know outside
1:15:37of knowing the creator,
1:15:38because we're made in that image.
1:15:41But it has been a journey of discovery
1:15:44for me, and I'm still on it.
1:15:47But it's been very rewarding.
1:15:57Going back to the original question,
1:15:59is there like any guidelines or protections
1:16:02to saving your writing to avoid causes like that?
1:16:06Well, thankfully these days,
1:16:08we have Google Docs, we have online tools
1:16:13that we can use that auto-drive things.
1:16:16But I have backups.
1:16:17Even when I work on Word, I'll email copies to myself.
1:16:21I work on Word and Google Docs.
1:16:25I don't necessarily handwrite.
1:16:27I actually have horrible handwriting.
1:16:29So I am a typer.
1:16:31I'm a computer person.
1:16:35But yeah, those are the basics.
1:16:36I usually use Word and Google Docs.
1:16:40And I have so many different versions
1:16:42of my book everywhere.
1:16:44Even I use a software called Vellum.
1:16:47And so I have these different stages of my book
1:16:50where I'm doing edits and things.
1:16:53So I'm saving like multi-versions of the drafts.
1:16:58And I have so many drafts in my book, like everywhere.
1:17:04As I'm in visual media,
1:17:06I know the importance of one video,
1:17:10but also a great picture.
1:17:13And if you're on social media,
1:17:14it's powerful to have a great picture, a great headshot.
1:17:19So translating that into the book,
1:17:21how important is a cover?
1:17:24You know, that saying,
1:17:25you can't judge a book by its cover.
1:17:28I think we use that in an interesting way
1:17:31because we typically do judge by the outward appearance.
1:17:34So there is some type of message
1:17:36that you still wanna have with your book cover
1:17:39that's gonna draw people in or the right people in,
1:17:42or at least allude to what is the book about.
1:17:45I'm really blessed
1:17:46that I've connected with Sharita Karthon.
1:17:48Shout out to Sharita,
1:17:49who did Devon's Cafe and Unfinished Business Lisa.
1:17:54And she's really nailing the series.
1:17:57But even with working with a different designer
1:17:59for When Love Wins, they still nailed it
1:18:01because it was exactly a scene in the book
1:18:03that I envisioned the cover to be.
1:18:06And then even Lisa's book,
1:18:08she was exactly how I saw her.
1:18:12So as a visionary,
1:18:14it's like I'm still getting this download of this idea
1:18:18of what I want the image to be
1:18:19and then connecting with the right people
1:18:21who have the gift to make that come alive.
1:18:24It's definitely important.
1:18:25You don't wanna underestimate your book cover.
1:18:27So is this Devon on the cover?
1:18:31And I see the skyline in a lower background
1:18:35and he's in the cafe.
1:18:47Well, Devon is on the brink of his life changing.
1:18:52He's about to graduate college,
1:18:53but he finds himself engulfed and enthralled
1:18:57in his first real love.
1:19:00So unfortunately, some obstacles emerge
1:19:03in his personal life,
1:19:05several different obstacles actually.
1:19:07And the book is really portraying him looking forward
1:19:12into his future, him standing in purpose and identity,
1:19:16but there are gonna be some hard choices
1:19:18that he's gonna have to make, some hard sacrifices.
1:19:23You know what they say,
1:19:24and this is why kind of shift gears towards photography
1:19:28they say a picture tells a thousand words
1:19:31and I am a writer.
1:19:32Like I will write my heart out.
1:19:35But when I started picking up a camera more,
1:19:38they say a picture tells a thousand words
1:19:40and I get to tell a thousand words multiple times.
1:19:50Very well thought out.
1:19:54Shout out to Sharita.
1:19:56Yeah, over power brand.
1:19:58And I'll be talking to you next month.
1:20:00So yeah, shout out to Sharita Karthon.
1:20:05So I would like to end with a few more questions.
1:20:09I know I kind of asked you this before,
1:20:12but I get alive on a podcast as a creative.
1:20:19How would you describe your creative process
1:20:23if it was a weather forecast?
1:20:28What did I say before?
1:20:30Oh, I said quiet storm because it snuck up on me.
1:20:35I'm like, oh, but then it's like,
1:20:40once I get going, it's over.
1:20:43I'll stick with that answer.
1:20:45Okay.
1:20:47And when you're in your creative process,
1:20:50is there a time that you're constantly thinking
1:20:52about the business side at all?
1:20:55Oh, no.
1:20:56It is such a side for me to let loose and be free.
1:20:59That's why I don't create outlines or anything
1:21:01because I can be so structured type A
1:21:05and linear in my thinking.
1:21:08So creating is like releasing, flowing,
1:21:11not being hindered and just seeing what comes out
1:21:14in this experience with the divine.
1:21:17So, yeah.
1:21:19And how do you balance that?
1:21:21Like you said, it could be type A structure,
1:21:24but when you're on your creative mode
1:21:26and you're on that creative flow,
1:21:30it's like it's going and going.
1:21:32So how do you balance the two?
1:21:34Well, you're gonna need editing,
1:21:37a lot of editing on the backend.
1:21:40It's not that I'm never type A,
1:21:42it's just a time and a place for it.
1:21:45And so learning to differentiate
1:21:47when is it time to be administrative and structured?
1:21:50When is it time to flow and be creative?
1:21:53And I have an innate knowing of that,
1:21:55which helps me do both and balance it
1:21:59and be an entrepreneur and lead teams
1:22:02and be a visionary and execute
1:22:04because I can sense when it's time for either.
1:22:10And I know you're also a speaker and coach
1:22:14and is there one that you love more?
1:22:18I love to inspire people.
1:22:20I love getting to teach them the right path
1:22:27so that they are equipped in that,
1:22:30making the mistakes I've made or being taken advantage of.
1:22:35But I think the speaking
1:22:37is probably more of my wheelhouse
1:22:40that I can see the open doors in that space
1:22:44and the feedback that I've gotten
1:22:46is how people feel when I'm presenting
1:22:50and it's very natural for me.
1:22:52I can experience a lot of nerves beforehand.
1:22:55Oh yeah.
1:22:57But it's like, just put the mic in my hand,
1:22:59like that's how it feels.
1:23:01It's like, if I can just get the mic in my hand,
1:23:03like I'm good.
1:23:03It's a different feeling, ain't it?
1:23:05Yeah, it's just like, I need to just be moving in it.
1:23:08It's that lead up and build up
1:23:10that makes it more nerve wracking.
1:23:12Even when I host events, I have to have downtime.
1:23:15I have to have quiet time the day before,
1:23:17the day after I need a nap, the day of.
1:23:19I don't talk to many people the day of.
1:23:22There's a whole process.
1:23:23It's a process, trust me.
1:23:25When I used to do music, that was my ritual.
1:23:29Even before everything, I take a sip of water,
1:23:31I leave the beverage just to refresh it.
1:23:35My house needs to be clean.
1:23:36I was talking to Jumar about that
1:23:38before something for the fellas,
1:23:39like, why am I like that?
1:23:41Why does my house need to be clean?
1:23:42And he was like, cause you.
1:23:43Clarity.
1:23:44Yeah, and you don't have control over the event.
1:23:46You don't know what's gonna happen,
1:23:47but you have control over your home environment.
1:23:49And I was like, that makes perfect sense.
1:23:51It's true.
1:23:52I need my house clean, even before I go on my trip.
1:23:55Like, my house needs to be clean.
1:23:57It's like, you control what you can having that structure
1:23:59cause you don't know what's gonna happen.
1:24:02Yeah, that's true.
1:24:05That's the clarity, that peace of mind.
1:24:08Your thoughts is more organized.
1:24:10Exactly.
1:24:11And I write after writing that space too.
1:24:13I write at home.
1:24:15So I need my home environment
1:24:16to be conducive to that as well.
1:24:26At the expo, we're working on this documentary.
1:24:30We're gonna present the pilots.
1:24:33Devin's Cafe is out.
1:24:34I already have ideas for the second
1:24:36or the next book in the series,
1:24:39which involves some traveling.
1:24:43I have a conference I'm working on.
1:24:44So there's gonna be more to be said about that.
1:24:47And it's pivoting a little bit, which is exciting.
1:24:50From expo to conference.
1:24:52We'll let her hear more about this.
1:24:54You're gonna have to wait, but stay tuned.
1:24:58Definitely subscribe to NicoleDMiller.com.
1:25:00That is where I give my audience
1:25:02all of my current events and up-to-date information.
1:25:07But yeah, I think I'm really just seeing what is next.
1:25:12Even though I am a planner
1:25:14and I have these visions and ideas,
1:25:17I don't always know the big picture.
1:25:20Sometimes I know three to six months.
1:25:24But so right now I feel like I know up through September,
1:25:28but then I always have things rolling in
1:25:32that just kind of fill up my calendar
1:25:34and I've never had to seek anything.
1:25:36Since I've been doing this,
1:25:38the events always come to me.
1:25:39The opportunities always come to me.
1:25:41So that's been a blessing of being like,
1:25:43I don't look for it, it just comes.
1:25:45But because I said yes,
1:25:46and because I put myself out there
1:25:48and have done the work.
1:25:49That's very true.
1:25:50Even when I called you last month,
1:25:52a couple of days before the event.
1:25:54And I'm like, yeah, it happens like that.
1:25:57And you did that while I was at an event.
1:25:59Like I was at an event.
1:26:01I'm like, okay, I'm at an event.
1:26:02You give me an event.
1:26:03I was like, okay.
1:26:03Trying to be a part of another event.
1:26:05In two days.
1:26:07Right.
1:26:08But it's like I said, that community,
1:26:11that trust and having that good network.
1:26:15The foundation's already set.
1:26:17I think for me it is that next level of the dream
1:26:21manifesting in the connections
1:26:25that are gonna come for that to happen
1:26:27and being sensitive to those connections.
1:26:32And yeah, that next level of progress.
1:26:35So we'll see how that manifests.
1:26:39Now I wanna leave on this note,
1:26:43just thinking about the time we put into the documentary
1:26:47and we still have a lot of work to go.
1:26:51How much work and time is needed
1:26:54to work on a project like this?
1:26:57Like it doesn't happen overnight, right?
1:26:58Clearly, you know,
1:27:00a documentary is telling a story of a person's journey.
1:27:02So you already know it's gonna take time.
1:27:05Right now we're at the four year mark, I believe.
1:27:08Four years in county.
1:27:10Four years in.
1:27:11And I still haven't gotten to where I know I'm going.
1:27:14So who knows how much longer we have,
1:27:16but I'm grateful I have somebody like you on the road
1:27:19to say yes, to be committed, to be dedicated,
1:27:22to have follow throughs, to have a skill set.
1:27:26For us to piece this together and figure it out.
1:27:30This is our first documentary,
1:27:31but we're both storytellers and we clearly have,
1:27:35you know, the gifts to do it and the belief.
1:27:38We have the belief system
1:27:39because we've already done so many things.
1:27:42So all of that ensure success,
1:27:45but we're committed to the long haul.
1:27:47Anyone who's an entrepreneur, you have to be.
1:27:49Anyone who's a literary entrepreneur, you have to be.
1:27:52Anyone who's a creative entrepreneur, you have to be.
1:27:55I feel like being an indie author,
1:27:58you are, it's like having a double major
1:28:00or being a creative entrepreneur.
1:28:02It's like having a double major
1:28:03because you have the business side,
1:28:06but then you have the creative side and you're doing both.
1:28:09Double major.
1:28:11What is something you want someone watching
1:28:19your documentary to take from this documentary?
1:28:23I think the biggest thing is that you have purpose.
1:28:29Cause that was my heart cry of what is my purpose.
1:28:36And God revealed it.
1:28:38And it was nothing I ever imagined.
1:28:42It was exceedingly abundantly beyond
1:28:45what I could ever imagine.
1:28:46It's still unfolding and it touches other people's lives.
1:28:52So that's the biggest thing,
1:28:54message from the documentary is don't count yourself out.
1:29:01You're here for a reason.
1:29:05What would you say to someone
1:29:06that is counting themself out?
1:29:09I will say that.
1:29:12Give God one more day.
1:29:14Like don't let those moments take you under,
1:29:18especially when you're an emotional person,
1:29:20you're a sensitive person
1:29:21or you're just dealing with a lot of trauma.
1:29:23If you can get through it,
1:29:25someone is on the other side
1:29:27that's gonna be inspired by your resilience.
1:29:29Like we're all here for a reason
1:29:32and we're interconnected.
1:29:41Closing words you would love to give
1:29:44to an aspiring entrepreneur or youth
1:29:47that is listening to this.
1:29:49I would say do the thing that's in your heart.
1:29:53Don't minimize whatever those things are,
1:29:57those desires, those dreams.
1:30:00Do it and be blown away by what comes out of you.
1:30:07Follow you, purchase books, all that good stuff.
1:30:13Well, I can be found at NicoleDMiller.com.
1:30:17The publishing house is ndmiller.pub.
1:30:21Instagram is H-T-O-H-B,
1:30:24which stands for How to Overcome Heartbreak.
1:30:26And Facebook.com slash backslash H-T-O-H-B.
1:30:31LinkedIn and YouTube at Girl Talk CLE on Instagram.
1:30:38So those are all of my spaces.
1:30:45This is Mr. Steve Jackson,
1:30:48photographer Jackson of Alienize Photos Media,
1:30:51bringing you another episode
1:30:53of Alienize Photos Industry Talk with Nicole D. Miller.
1:31:01Check this full episode out.
1:31:03Listen out on your long commutes.
1:31:07Or break it up, you know.
1:31:08Listen to half now, listen to the other half later.
1:31:12But if you love this episode,
1:31:14definitely give it some feedback.
1:31:16Like, share, comment, all that good stuff.
1:31:20Stay tuned to the next episode.
1:31:23We are out.
1:31:26We made it.
1:31:27I was like, how long is this interview, Alien?
1:31:30Oh, and I'll do you fine.
1:31:33I was like, it's like three hours long.
1:31:35Your camera cut off.
1:31:37I'm sure it did.
1:31:38I'm like, I don't got the storage space.
1:31:40I was gonna ask, but you know, it's for a question.
1:31:44We did it, we did it.
1:31:51So when is it gonna drop?
1:31:53Let's try to drop it before the expo.
1:31:57I know it's a couple of people ahead of you,
1:31:59but you know, they could wait.
1:32:02Unless I just start dropping everything.
1:32:06Appreciate it.